OFFSEASON THREAD: NL MVP Vote

by AshlandATeam 19. November 2010 16:33

 

Update: Joey Votto has been named 2010 NL Most Valuable Player!!!

 

It's been fifteen years since the Reds have had a legitimate candidate for National League MVP, and just like in 1995, if you had predicted in the spring that the Reds would have a winner, most people would have looked at you like you were crazy. In 95, it was because the Reds' candidate was a top of the order shortstop with 15 home runs, and typically, those types of players don't get MVP votes. This year, unless you were one of the few to predict the Reds as a 90 win team, you simply had to figure that no matter how well a Red played, they wouldn't be a serious option.

 

Well, here we are in November: our beloved Reds are the NL Central Champions, and our best player, Joey Votto, is the prohibitive favorite for the award. Before we go any further, let's admit and recognize that no matter what happens Monday at 2:00, it's pretty freaking cool that Votto is getting this type of respect and publicity, shall we? Okay. Now that we've got that out of the way, let's break down the five top candidates, in my opinion, for the award:

 

Albert Pujols, 1B, St. Louis Cardinals

 

Numbers: .312/.414/.596, 42 HR, 118 RBI, 14 SB

 

The Case For: He's Albert Pujols. That means, he's the accepted 'best player in baseball,' and as much as I hate the Redbirds (and I do. A LOT), he may be the best player of the last thirty years or so. So how is he NOT the MVP? Plus, he's already got a Gold Glove and a Silver Slugger; how can another first baseman finish ahead of him when he's the 'best' at the plate and in the field. And oh yeah - he leads the league in the 'big' stats, home runs and RBI.

 

The Case Against: He's not Joey Votto. That means, he's not even the best first baseman in his own division, and it's arguable if he had a better season than Adrian Gonzalez as well. If this were a lifetime achievement award, that'd be fine, but it's not - it's based on this year only. And while we're here, let's remember that the Cardinals didn't just fail to make the playoffs; they failed by not being able to beat terrible teams, and they went into a tailspin in August to sew things up for the Reds. And MVP would have/should probably not come from a heavily favored team that couldn't beat the Pirates, should it?

 

Carlos Gonzalez, OF, Colorado Rockies

 

Numbers: .336/.376/.598, 34 HR, 117 RBI, 26 SB

 

The Case For: Ask Brandon Phillips - the guy can do more on the baseball field than anyone on this list. He plays a tougher defensive position (well), and he's a threat at the plate, in the field, and on the bases. Plus, he won the batting title.

 

The Case Against: For one, he's not the best player on his own team - that's Troy Tulowitzki, who's on this list if he's not hurt. And for two, I can't trust Colorado. They were accused of cheating, and when MLB stepped in, that was enough for me to believe that Cargo's home road splits aren't a coincidence. This guy is the one on the list that I'll be truly upset about if he wins the award.

 

Adrian Gonzalez, 1B, San Diego Padres

 

Numbers: .298/.393/.511, 31 HR, 101 RBI

 

The Case For: If Bud Black is the Manager of the Year, why not A-Gon for MVP? He was the best player, by a long shot, on THE surprise of the year. Furthermore, his numbers are affected by playing in the toughest hitter's park in the majors'. Clearly, in GABP or Coors Field, his numbers would be much more gaudy.

 

The Case Against: San Diego didn't make the playoffs, and, just like St. Louis, collapsed epically. I have a hard time giving the award to a player whose team played with their hands around their throat at the end of the season, no matter how good he played all year.

 

Aubrey Huff, 1B, San Francisco Giants

 

Numbers: .290/.385/.506, 26 HR, 86 RBI

 

The Case For: Bottom line - he was the best player on the World Series Champs. His RBI look modest, but that makes sense considering the lineup he played in. But, if players get credit for getting to the playoffs, Huff HAS to be there somewhere.

 

The Case Against: If the votes were cast after the postseason, maybe. But during the regular season, he wasn't close to as accomplished as the other first basemen on the list. Being a regular season award, he warrants a mention, but that's it.

 

Joey Votto, 1B, Cincinnati Reds

 

Numbers: .324/.424/.600, 37 HR, 113 RBI, 15 SB

 

The Case For: The Bat led the league in on base percentage, slugging, and would have won the batting title if the Rockies weren't dirty cheaters. He was the best player on a surprising division champ (beating the team of his closest competitor), and he improved in the field enough so that he's no longer a liability. Best of all, as Reds fans watched all season, he was a beast in the clutch: .369/.491/.638 with RISP, .370/.453/.685 in 'late and close' situations.

 

The Case Against: He's not Albert Pujols (see above). The voting will be ridiculous if he wins; how is neither the best defensive first baseman nor the best offensive first baseman, yet he's the MVP of the whole league? That's terribly inconsistent, even considering coaches vote on the Gold Gloves. Plus, the Reds were the most balanced team in the league, going 8-4 in games he didn't play. Percentage wise, that means they should have just played Miguel Cairo at first base instead of Votto.

 

Verdict: Okay, so I had to come up with something against Votto. As you can see, it's tough - my unoffical ballot looks like this:

 

1. Joey Votto

2. Albert Pujols

3. Adrian Gonzalez

4. Aubrey Huff

5. Carlos Gonzalez

 

Now it's your turn - you get five guys for your ballot. Do you give Cargo the 'cheating' penalty, like me? Do you think Aubrey Huff is deserving of a mention? Who will anger you the most if it's not Votto? Leave your comments in the replies and cross your fingers/rub a rabbit's foot/say a prayer for Joey this Monday!

Tags:

Off Season Ramblings

Comments (354) -

Mary
Mary
11/19/2010 6:04:06 PM #

CarGo would be the choice that would upset me most (actually, any of them other than Votto would upset me to some extent--how did he not make the All Star team on the first cut!).  "The Bat" is the MVP for me

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/19/2010 7:15:15 PM #

m_sheldon
  
#reds added SS Zack Cozart, IF/OF Todd Frazier, IF Kris Negron and RHP Daryl Thompson to 40-man roster. The roster at 37 players.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/19/2010 7:42:40 PM #

Sounds like the right choices to me.  And it looks like there will not be 40 man roster issues to prevent Cozart and Frazier from getting called up next year.  

timothy Wyant
timothy Wyant
11/19/2010 8:33:57 PM #

I like the choices.  In fact, they were my predictions in the last starter.  Negron has played very well in the AFL so far, good enough to get himself on the roster it would seem.  No glaring omissions, and if the Reds do lose somebody it won't be a guy that would be a big contributer in 2011.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/19/2010 9:31:03 PM #

Good news of going from having some small amount of social life for the past 3 months to having no social life for the next month: I can stay on top of baseball while studying! Yay! Winter meetings! Whoooooooooo!

The Athletics, Indians, Royals and Tigers are the four clubs on Upton's no-trade list, tweets FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal.  Upton can be dealt to any of the other 25 teams without his approval.

Which means he can be dealt to the Reds!

DocProc
DocProc
11/19/2010 10:13:29 PM #

Great job, Ashland--thanks for your hard work and the new starter.

The choice is easy:  Votto.  Anyone else will be a travesty.

rpa
rpa
11/19/2010 11:45:00 PM #

As much as I hate to say it, Pujols winning wouldn't be a travesty.

If either Gonzalez wins it, that might be a bit upsetting.

I don't know.  Baseball awards seem kind of meaningless when Derek Jeter wins a Gold Glove.

btalbert25
btalbert25
11/20/2010 9:16:49 AM #

Can't judge all awards based on Gold Glove.  The Gold Glove has always been a joke.  I think Palmero won it one year and he played about 20 games at first base and the rest of the year was DH.  There were many years Larkin deserved the Gold Glove but an old Ozzie Smith won instead.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/19/2010 10:16:47 PM #

When you get DFA'd by Pittsburgh, do you have to walk the plank?

Pirates Designate Duke, LaRoche, Young

rpa
rpa
11/19/2010 11:49:54 PM #

I don't think Huff really deserves a mention.  

I know it's blasphemy, but I think there's another Cardinal who had a better season than Huff - Matt Holliday.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/20/2010 2:22:26 AM #

You're probably right, but as you noticed, it's tough to vote for anyone else. Matt Holliday? Please - the second best player on a second place team? I can't do it.

Huff gets the mention because of the WS. That's all. It'll be interesting to see what the real ballots look like.

rpa
rpa
11/19/2010 11:51:54 PM #

I guess this is my ballot:

1) Votto
2) Pujols
3) Adrian Gonzalez
4) Carlos Gonzalez
5) Roy Halliday (I can't come up with a 5th batter who was "more valuable").

rpa
rpa
11/20/2010 12:03:07 AM #

I find it interesting that the Reds thought Negron and Thompson needed to be protected... but I suppose with so many open slots on the 40-man that it makes sense to do it.  I guess Negron is tearing up the AFL right now, and I still think Thompson might make a good reliever someday.  

The best thing is, if the Reds pick Sergio Valenzuela again this year, they won't have to cut anyone to do it.

btalbert25
btalbert25
11/20/2010 9:20:49 AM #

I would love to see Votto win the MVP, but my fear is Pujols is going to get it.  I don't really see Adrian Gonzalez winning it at all, his stats are less than the Pujols and Votto, his team collapsed down the stretch, just don't see him having a chance.  The Rockies 2 guys will split votes. It comes down to Votto and Pujols.  I just have a bad feeling it's going to Pujols.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/20/2010 1:03:03 PM #

I agree 100% bta.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/20/2010 1:05:06 PM #

Gene, If you are out there - I'd like nothing more than to see West Virginia beat Louisville today.  

rpa
rpa
11/20/2010 9:51:48 PM #

Man, no baseball news today.  

I did just notice that South Korea won a gold medal in the Asian Games earlier this week.  Meaning that Shin-Soo Choo probably won't have to serve in the military.

Meaning I now have reason to think the Reds now have a top OF target to pursue that is exactly what they need - good OBP, fairly young, good defense.

Unfortunately, I saw this article:

sportsillustrated.cnn.com/.../index.html

and this quote:

Working out a long-term deal with Choo's agent, Scott Boras, has been one of Antonetti priorities since he replaced new team president Mark Shapiro as GM last month.
"It is something we will explore," Antonetti said. "He is under club control for the next three years, but we understand his value and hope he will be a Cleveland Indian for a long time. We certainly will try to work through this project with Scott."

Reds need to get in there and convince the Indians they don't want to pay the big arb bump Choo is going to get next year, and that they really need some young pitching and corner "infielders".


In other news, I think UC is going to drop an 80 on Rutgers.  Not that unexpected, except that conference play hasn't started in basketball yet and I'm looking at a football score.


And I got a baseball card in the mail today.  I'm now 15 cards away from a complete set of 120.

http://www.oldcardboard.com/w/w603/w603gal01.asp

I wanted something early post war that was somewhat challenging to put together but wouldn't break the bank.  I'm not overly condition sensitive (although I have 6 or 7 cards that I want to replace because they have major damage).  People tended to write on these things when given blanks to do so...

I have most of the keys to the set from a player standpoint, except for the big one... which appears to be Shoeless Joe Jackson.  I've only seen that card on ebay like twice, and both times it went for more than $500.  Ugh.  Wasn't able to pull the trigger either time, but next time I'll have to because they're apparently rare.  It turns out if you issue a big card with two players on it 60+ years ago, people tended to cut them in half.  Most of the ones I'm missing are those 2-player cards...

Anyway, it's a quirky little set and it's been fun hunting the things down the last two years.


Also, I'm seriously considering going to spring training for a couple of days next year (trying to piggyback a trip to Arizona on to a trip to California I think I'm going to have to take sometime in March).  Anyone here who has gone... any good suggestions for a hotel near the Reds facility?  I like Hilton properties best because I have so many points I usually get free nights and stuff...


Amy
Amy
11/20/2010 10:22:31 PM #

There's a newish Hampton Inn in Goodyear that was a nice place to stay last year. Not far from the ballpark; also very close to Raul & Theresa's (yum). One other thing to consider: there's an Avis rental facility at the Hampton Inn, and it's cheaper to take some sort of shuttle from the airport out there and rent than it is to rent at the airport (sadly, I didn't know about the Goodyear Avis until we'd already rented at the airport last spring).

rpa
rpa
11/21/2010 12:34:05 AM #

Hampton Inn is good for me... free stay, basically.  Thanks.


Good tip on the rental cars... I divert all of my bonuses with Hertz to Skymiles.  Just did all of my Christmas shopping with my miles, actually.  And got myself a PS3 and some obscenely expensive German clock-radio, too...  I've only got about 300K miles left (won't be paying to fly to AZ, you know).

Yay for my horrible job paying for perks.  Now just have to figure out when I can be away from work for a week.

DocProc
DocProc
11/21/2010 8:51:52 AM #

I'm going to stay at that Hampton this year, too--better facility and location than the place we stayed last year in Goodyear.  I might also spend a night or two in Scottsdale, because we'll be catching the Reds against the Giants there.

RPA, when we get closer to Spring Training, let's compare lots of notes.

rpa
rpa
11/20/2010 9:56:50 PM #

I meant to add... too bad when the Reds traded Ben Broussard to the Indians, all they got was Russell Branyan.  The Indians got Choo when they traded Broussard to the Mariners.  Bastards.  Too bad Bavasi doesn't work for the Indians now.

Amy
Amy
11/20/2010 10:28:05 PM #

Yeah, but Broussard is in a *band*

http://www.myspace.com/benbroussardband

I kind of knew he was a music guy, but recently a friend of mine asked if I'd ever heard of Ben Broussard, and I'm like, yeah, he played for the Lookouts when I lived in Chattanooga--not sure if he's still playing baseball or not (also, why are you asking me about a baseball player, because that's so not your thing?) She said, no, Ben Broussard the musician. What? So then I had to look him up. He's not awful.

rpa
rpa
11/21/2010 12:30:57 AM #

Good for him.  I wasn't trying to damn Broussard via faint praise... he's a former major leaguer AND now I find out he's currently in a band.  Can't say either for myself.

I am working on another musical project... but it's been nearly 7 years since I've recorded anything.  My goal is to have something presentable (?!) by my 35th birthday.  I set weird goals for myself sometimes just to change things up... working 80 hours a week doesn't leave much time to practice, but my music was never really about competency to begin with.  Heh.

I dunno.  Checking out this "Ben Broussard Band" it sounds like some kind of cross between Everlast, weak Pearl Jam, and lots of bad late-90s alterna-rock.   But I guess that's the critic in me coming out.

Speaking of music, I've been listening to a lot of Grandaddy lately.  Sucks that they had to break up, but it was inevitable.  That being said, they recorded a great song (I mean, it's about a broken robot being drunk and depressed... what more can you ask for?), and had someone create what has to be the greatest video ever* for it...

http://vimeo.com/4707422

*you may only consider this the greatest video ever if
1) you think songs about depressed robots are cool
2) you spent most of your childhood programming in Applesoft BASIC
3) you're a geek and/or nerd

I've considered hanging around Modesto just to figure out how Jason Lytle came up with all this stuff.  And then I remember it's Modesto, and NOBODY wants to hang out there.  Seriously.

timothy Wyant
timothy Wyant
11/21/2010 5:28:03 PM #

Hope everyone is having a good weekend!

Found this video through an obscure soccer player I follow and was blown away.  I think I was really drawn in by the music and editing, which are top notch.  And since there's no Reds news, and the Bengals suck (again), I wanted to share something nice with my best good internet friends.  Hope you enjoy.

www.youtube.com/watch    

Mary
Mary
11/21/2010 6:41:40 PM #

Amazing stunt riding--and amazing that the guy survives

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/21/2010 8:35:59 PM #

I LOVE BEING A BENGALS FAN!

timothy Wyant
timothy Wyant
11/21/2010 8:43:36 PM #

I see your false excitement and reject it wholesale! LOL

The end of the semester cannot arrive soon enough.  I won't be subject to checking on Bengals scores and/or reading postgame recap/coach's comments when I'm in Vietnam.  This team is a disgrace.  If Mike Brown pulled a Baltimore Colts leaving in the middle of the night stunt it would be the best thing even to happen to Cincinnati.



Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/21/2010 8:54:21 PM #

Well, I wouldn't go that far. I think most studies show that the harm that occurs to a city once a pro sports team, even a bad one that doesn't draw well, can be pretty harsh.

I guess it has to do mainly w/ advertising, city gets to have their name put out there in relation to the team. Plus athletes spend a ton of money, other teams fans that travel to Cincy spend a ton of money, Bengals fans spend a ton of money, advertisers and local businesses spend a ton of money.  

All in all, would be bad for the city in the long run more likely than not, consequences could be pretty rough. Cincinnati would not likely be near the top of the list to get an expansion team.

Mary
Mary
11/21/2010 9:02:46 PM #

Cincinnati would not likely be near the top of the list to get an expansion team.

LA has been trying to get a team pretty much since the Rams picked up and moved to St. Louis (you can hardly count the short time the Raiders spent in LA between stints in Oakland.  I personally can't say that I miss having an NFL team, but think it a bit strange that one of the largest markets in the  country (and a market that supports two team each in the NHL, MLB, and NBA)can't seem to acquire a team.  And no, I don't want the Bengals and Mike Brown even thinking about coming to LA

VottoLoco
VottoLoco
11/21/2010 11:26:55 PM #

One of the reasons I love LA so much is that they won't support an NFL franchise.  Enough with this football talk!  Pitchers and catchers report in less than three months!

timothy Wyant
timothy Wyant
11/21/2010 9:34:53 PM #

Well, I suppose you can weight the economic benefit of having an NFL franchise like the Bengals with the frustration that the franchise brings to its fans.  I believe that the Bangals take some money away from the Reds.  Fans that spend money in the fall for Bengals tickest may not be able to spend in the spring/summer for Reds tickets.  Never mind that reds tickets can colst only $5 dollars each, most fans never even seem to investigate before announcing that it's to expensive to go to the ballpark.

I guess I'm just frustrated that every year, Make Brown and his gang of thieves manage to swindle fans into surrendering hundreds of dollars on season tickets and seat licenses, only to put a pathetic product on the field that wrecks the reputation of the city and the region.  As a former southern Ohioan (I still feel like a southern Ohioan at heart, if not in location), I hate hearing from others how Ohio sucks, yada yada yada.

Bengals leave, city throws its weight behind the Reds, a franchise that has demonstrated that it wants to win, payroll increases, and Booyah, maybe the Reds start killing other teams.  Maybe it doesn't work that way, I'm not an economist, so I don't know.  But I hate seeing the Bengals swindle a city, and a region, out of money when they have no real desire to put forth a product that gives the people of Cincinnati, and of southern Ohio in general, a good name.      

btalbert25
btalbert25
11/22/2010 11:15:30 AM #

I wonder how much the city and county really have made off the Bengals since the new stadium openned.  They handed Brown a 1/2 a billion dollar stadium, and I'm not so sure they've reaped the benefits of that.  Not to mention, any work done in the community seems to be Marvin Lewis or individual players.  They may have a similar program to the Reds Community fund, but their PR and Marketing people do a terrible job of  promoting it.  I just don't know that the Bengals have been that positive for the city the last 15 to 20 years.  I always said MLB stepping in and getting rid of Marge helped the Reds, it's a shame the NFL can't do the same to Brown.  Other owners hate him because owners like him drag down their revenue sharing.  Free agents that aren't old or need a 2nd or 3rd chance because of trouble avoid that team because the Bengals treat their players horribly.  As long as he is calling the shots, that team has no chance of sustained success.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
11/21/2010 9:35:57 PM #

Good song,good riding. Who's the soccer player you're talking about.

timothy Wyant
timothy Wyant
11/21/2010 9:48:47 PM #

Lee Nguyen, he's an American, played college soccer at Indiana, and is now playing professionally for Becamex Binh Duong in Vietnam.  He is LeeNguyen24 on twitter.  

The EPL is a complete mess this year, which is great.  I live seeing teams like Bolton up there with the MANU's and Chelsea's of the world.  Stuart Holden and C.Y. Lee are playing great in their midfield so far this season.    

River Otter
River Otter
11/22/2010 9:25:08 AM #

I saw the video last week as well. It's unbelievable what he can do on a bike.

genewv
genewv
11/21/2010 6:53:42 PM #

RF,

Thanks for the WVU bump. Appreciated. We were ugly, but ugly looks a lot better with a "W."

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/21/2010 8:13:54 PM #

That Louisville D isn't too bad on some days so I wouldn't let the ugly concern you too much - on the flip side the WVU D looked pretty good at times also.  

Redwakeup
Redwakeup
11/22/2010 10:51:05 AM #

RedFaced, Do you believe that we stand a chance to pull off a win against the Vols this year to break the 25 year dry run (UK Grad 1988, Marshall and Wildcat fan for life!)

Redwakeup
Redwakeup
11/22/2010 10:49:27 AM #

Congrats on the WVU win. Marshall didn't fare so well. A bad first half left Marshall fighting for a fifth win this week against Tulane. Happy Thanksgiving.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/21/2010 9:17:24 PM #

I have no idea how to explain this, but if you know what Robocop is, this is pretty funny:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pOoSe2K5DU&NR=1

timothy Wyant
timothy Wyant
11/21/2010 9:51:42 PM #

OMG!!!

Seriously, asian commercials are completely insane.  I saw more crazy stuff in one month in Vietnam in 2007 than I ever saw here in the states.  Absolutely bonkers.

rpa
rpa
11/21/2010 11:41:58 PM #

OK, that's just hilarious.

I love Robocop.

Once someone asked me what my three favorite movies were.  I told the truth.  Touch of Evil (even though I never really could buy Charlton Heston as a Mexican), The Deer Hunter (even though it's about 14 hours long), and Robocop (even though it was directed by the same guy that directed Showgirls).

Maybe I don't see enough movies.

Redwakeup
Redwakeup
11/22/2010 11:03:10 AM #

We are getting closer to Spring Training, guys.

12 weeks and 2 days to pitchers and catchers reporting (Feb 16th)
12 weeks and 5 days to get the rest of the team on site (Feb 19th)
13 weeks and 6 days to the 1st pre-season game with the Indians (February 27th)

Got an phone interview with a Cincinnati job at 2:00 pm today. Wish me luck! This will give me a chance to leave Zebulon and make it to the Show!  

River Otter
River Otter
11/22/2010 12:07:17 PM #

Good luck!

Amy
Amy
11/22/2010 1:26:22 PM #

Good luck!! Will be rooting for you *and* Joey at 2pm Smile

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/22/2010 12:44:39 PM #

Redwakeup - Yes there's a chance at finally beating the Vols.  I'd say they SHOULD beat the Vols but no need to tell you how that's been working out for UK even when they have had the better team. Personally, I expect Cobb to take it to the Vols - just worried about the defense.  I say UK pulls this one out finally.  

Timothy Wyant
Timothy Wyant
11/22/2010 2:03:48 PM #

YAY!!!!!  Congrats Joey

River Otter
River Otter
11/22/2010 2:06:10 PM #

Glad to see the BBWAA got it right! I look at the gold glove and silver slugger awards the same as college football coaches voting the polls.

Mary
Mary
11/22/2010 2:09:01 PM #

I liked that it was nearly unanimous


m_sheldon Mark Sheldon
Joey Votto is the NL MVP winner....1st place on 31 of 32 ballots from BBWAA http://bit.ly/9cQzBQ #reds #MVP
4 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Amy
Amy
11/22/2010 2:21:38 PM #

WOOOOO!!!!

JO-EY! JO-EY! JO-EY!

btalbert25
btalbert25
11/22/2010 2:32:23 PM #

That makes me incredibly happy.  I was so worried he was going to get shafted, though I don't know if it would've really been shafted as Pujols had a phenominal season as well.  So glad, first of many!

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/22/2010 2:37:44 PM #

I think a lot of voters likely awarded Pujols for his MVP like season by awarding him the Silver Slugger and Gold Glove but knew they were going to vote for Votto.  At least that was what I was telling myself last week.  Glad to see Joey win it.  He could have an even better year in 2011.  

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/22/2010 2:39:38 PM #

Colin Cowherd can kiss my A$$ btw... just saying.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/22/2010 2:56:36 PM #

To celebrate our MVP, I got a 9 out of 10 on this easier than it should have been quiz!

http://local.cincinnati.com/quiz/quiz.aspx?qid=90

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/22/2010 3:06:49 PM #

Dang, I missed out on perfection on the rookie record question. So close, yet so far.

rpa
rpa
11/22/2010 3:38:31 PM #

Rats, 9 out of 10.

I did not know who his favorite basketball team was.  

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/22/2010 3:44:08 PM #

I think I can safely bet we each missed a different one....and I'm betting Ash missed the 30 homer 1B question. Am I right?

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
11/22/2010 11:51:01 PM #

Actually, you and I missed the same one - I thought for sure someone else got more than 84 RBI.

Amy
Amy
11/22/2010 6:30:24 PM #

Ugh, I didn't know what round he was drafted in. 9 out of 10.

Hebron Reds Fan
Hebron Reds Fan
11/22/2010 3:21:27 PM #

Way to go Joey!  There was never any doubt.  The kids and I are ready for Redsfest!  Less than 2 weeks away!

rpa
rpa
11/22/2010 3:36:41 PM #

Well, Votto got the MVP.  They got it right.

It ought to be an interesting contract negotiation this offseason.

DocProc
DocProc
11/22/2010 3:37:58 PM #

WOO HOO!!!  If you had asked me to place 10 bucks on who would win, I would have bet on Pujols.  I was pretty sure Joey was going to get shafted.  He not only won, but he won in a LANDSLIDE.

Big, big smile.

Amy
Amy
11/22/2010 4:40:08 PM #

I am not opposed to this at all.

www.mlbtraderumors.com/.../...ontrelle-willis.html

Amy
Amy
11/22/2010 4:40:47 PM #

Minor league deal, and hey, if we happen to have the coach who can fix him....

Mary
Mary
11/22/2010 4:53:02 PM #

it does appear to be a no-lose proposition.  Unlike in the past when reclamation projects HAD to come through for any hope of a good season, D-Train's comeback would only be gravy should it happen

rpa
rpa
11/22/2010 5:17:27 PM #

Doesn't bother me at all.  As long as it's not a stupid sum of money (remember Corey Patterson's "minor league deal" and what he got paid).

I'm assuming it was pretty cheap and that Dontrelle wants to play for Dusty.  I say why not?  Well, so long as he actually has to compete for a roster spot and isn't handed one.  i don't think that will be a problem.

Mary
Mary
11/22/2010 5:19:24 PM #

mlb.fanhouse.com/.../

Nice MVP writeup

rpa
rpa
11/22/2010 6:38:32 PM #

Well, I guess I need to go grab a jar of moonshine to celebrate.

Seriously?  WTF?

Amy
Amy
11/22/2010 7:10:39 PM #

that was my exact reaction. completely colored the way I read the rest of the story.

Redwakeup
Redwakeup
11/22/2010 7:21:43 PM #

Being from WV, I'm used to hearing that Sh&%. I do not, however see how moonshine figures in with Cincinnati. Obviously, the writer must be from NYC. Typical big city idiot. Has no idea about 21st Century Appalachia. No, it's not as far along as NYC in every holler. Some places only have dial up.

rpa
rpa
11/22/2010 7:43:33 PM #

The writer is from (drumroll...)

DAYTON.

Yep, that Dayton.

I guess that trip up 75 is further than I realized.

rpa
rpa
11/22/2010 7:53:46 PM #

Dude has a twitter account... @tomkrasovic

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
11/23/2010 4:13:30 PM #

Seriously, he's from Dayton ?  That city is the biggest lump of crap I have ever seen and he has the 'nads to insinuate Cincinnati is a backwoods town.

btalbert25
btalbert25
11/23/2010 9:34:56 AM #

I know that people outside of this area consider Cincinnati to be a hick ass town.  I've heard it from people as close as Columbus before.  So maybe, that's what he is referencing.  I don't know.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
11/23/2010 4:16:36 PM #

Of course people from Columbus think The Nati is backwards, after all THE Ohio State University is there. I'm sorry OSU people, but that THE thing gets on my damned nerves. It's just pretentious and arrogant. I prefer Columbus State as a name.

DocProc
DocProc
11/22/2010 6:38:00 PM #

The Dontrelle signing is FINE by me.  Wow, the pitching staff is looking scary awesome.

rpa
rpa
11/22/2010 6:58:35 PM #

Man, if Halliday would've gotten two more points I would have the top 5 in the voting.

Now I wanna know who voted for Pujols.

Amy
Amy
11/22/2010 7:09:40 PM #

Joe Strauss, Cards beat writer for the Post-Dispatch.

rpa
rpa
11/22/2010 7:42:57 PM #

Ah, can't blame him for that.  Much like Charlie Manuel, he's got a job to do.  Not picking his guy would have some repercussions, I'm sure.

Redwakeup
Redwakeup
11/22/2010 7:45:06 PM #

Dad?

Yes, Son?

Why was our beat writer the only baseball writer to vote for "Uncle Stinky"?

SSSSHHHH!! Quiet son, "Uncle Sticky" is just between us. In front of everyone else, it's "Uncle Albert". (whisper)

Dad, why did you turn so pale?

Cause I thought "Uncle Albert" heard you call him .... "Uncle Stinky". (whisper)

But why do you worry about that? You're so big and strong.... In that fight against the Reds you said that Bad Uncle Rolen was lucky you didn't kick his "Pooholes", remember?

Yeah, I remember. He was lucky that I didn't try hard. I didn't want to hurt him on National TV, you know. Just be careful when you say "Stinky" and "Pooholes" around "Uncle Albert". He gets upset about the nick name "Stinky Pooholes". Although it is extremely funny, don't you think?

Yeah, Dad. It's hilarious, but you still didn't answer my question. Why did "Uncle St....Albert" Only get 1 vote and Joey Votto got the rest of the votes for MVP.

Son, it's because the writers hate us. They are in love with the Reds even though they cheat! Joey Votto won the award with slippery balls. Those D@$% balls helped the Reds cheat their way into winning the Pennant. It's also helping with the MVP vote also.

Dad, that doesn't make sense.

Son, who are going to believe? Me or the baseball writers. You know they hate me....

Dad?

Yes son?

Is this what being a Whiny Little B$#&% is like?

rpa
rpa
11/22/2010 8:07:42 PM #

Wish I could post the pic.

Will have to settle for the link

http://deadspin.com/5355012/when-stinky-met-pujols

Redwakeup
Redwakeup
11/22/2010 8:37:03 PM #

I love a good Carpenter and his son story. Soccer Dad needs to head back to the dog park.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
11/23/2010 4:08:30 PM #

I don't think I could even think about coming close to topping that one. That's a freaking classic. The dog park has been kind of boring lately. Mt real insid source hasn't been around in a while and the "virtual" sources have been a little scarce. The only interesting people have been the hot coed with the puggle and the cute pharmacist with the boxer. They're real and only do me any good in MY virtual world. Carp did have something to say about St. Louis being chosen the most dangerous city in the country, but my listening device went on the fritz halfway through his little diatribe.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
11/23/2010 10:15:24 PM #

I suck at typing.

Redwakeup
Redwakeup
11/24/2010 8:41:51 AM #

I sent an e-mail to Amy saying that we need to have a thread just for the Carpenter/son stories. BTW, those virtual listening devices suck. They never get you the complete story.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/22/2010 9:50:11 PM #

Drew Sutton is a Red Sox.

That sounds weird.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/22/2010 10:47:16 PM #

If Sutton were on Pittsburgh's team he'd play some.  

Frank_Robinsons_Ghost
Frank_Robinsons_Ghost
11/22/2010 10:38:54 PM #

Hi All --

Been reading from time to time.  I just had to drop in to say Whooo Hooo! for Joey, and Happy Thanksgiving.

stlredsfan
stlredsfan
11/22/2010 10:50:30 PM #

Spring training 2004 I was watching the minor leaguers on the back fields in Sarasota and I asked Tim Naehring about Votto.  I mispronounced his name (I said Vote-O), Naerhing corrected me and pointed Votto out.  Needless to say, no one is mispronouncing Votto's  name now.  He has the drive and work ethic to be at the center of the MVP race for many years.

Now, the question becomes-- how soon before Jay Bruce wins an MVP?

Mary
Mary
11/23/2010 10:08:48 AM #

Now, the question becomes-- how soon before Jay Bruce wins an MVP?

My guess?  2012.  I think he will have a breakout year in 2011 and really turn it up when he hits the age of 25

genewv
genewv
11/23/2010 10:48:43 AM #

Great news on Joey! Not so great on signing him long term. Will cost a lot more now, if we are able to do it at all. Just couldn't help throwing a little cold water on a great happening!

I like the Willis signing as well. As already stated, inexpensive shot at a possible fix.

RF,

The WVU "D" is major tough, they really are. Unfortunately, our offense is major offensive, most days.

River Otter
River Otter
11/23/2010 2:21:24 PM #

Pretty good article from Daugherty on Votto:  sportsillustrated.cnn.com/.../index.html

rpa
rpa
11/23/2010 7:55:09 PM #

You lost me at "Daugherty"

River Otter
River Otter
11/24/2010 9:00:29 AM #

Can't blame you.  Not sure what possessed me to read it, but it turned out to be a good article.  Go figure.

rpa
rpa
11/23/2010 8:01:24 PM #

So, just sitting here and enjoying a jar of moonshine, enjoying Cincinnati.

Wondering what Votto is going to get in arbitration.  I think the Reds are going to try to sign him long term now, and I think they will fail.

Better hope the revenue picture improves before he's a free agent.

timothy Wyant
timothy Wyant
11/23/2010 11:47:45 PM #

So the third story down on the Reds page of the Cincinnati Enquirer is a headline proclaiming that the Yankees have declined to offer arbitration to Derek Jeter.  Yet here it is 11:45 pm, 45 minutes after the arbitration deadline, and still no word if actual Reds players like Rhodes and O-Cab have been offered arbitration.  The Enquirer still covers the Reds, right?

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/23/2010 11:49:51 PM #

Was just announced 6 minutes ago I guess.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/23/2010 11:50:14 PM #

Heck, actually Fay was on it right after the Reds announced it, followed by Sheldon.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/23/2010 11:49:27 PM #

CincinnatiReds
  
Reds not offering arbitration to free agents Cabrera or Rhodes.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/23/2010 11:53:18 PM #

Guess it makes sense not to offer Rhodes arb, no sense in getting locked into a 4-6 million dollar one year deal w/ a reliever that's not a closer.

I would imagine a lot of what will happen to the bullpen this offseason depends on if they find a trading partner for Coco. If they move him, could probably spend 2-4 mil on something decent, if they hold onto him will have to rely on Chapman and Massett to hold down the fort. Smith, Ondrusek, and Bray could have big roles.

DocProc
DocProc
11/24/2010 8:14:45 AM #

Is it possible that they don't plan to bring Rhodes back and are planning on Willis to replace him as the lefty set-up guy?

DocProc
DocProc
11/24/2010 8:15:57 AM #

I only ask this because I wonder what the heck they plan to do with Willis.  There certainly isn't room for him in the starting rotation.

River Otter
River Otter
11/24/2010 9:03:23 AM #

I agree.  I have to believe they're looking at him as a reliever.

btalbert25
btalbert25
11/24/2010 10:30:28 AM #

I don't know, if Willis could have a rebirth somehow and got back to his old form, I think he has several options, one being great trade bait, 2 is if Leake gets pounded like he did at the end of last summer you have a great option. Not to mention you just never know what to expect out of Homer.  If he give a better option than what's in the rotation, you have to use him there.  

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/24/2010 2:22:14 AM #

Did somebody say moonpie?

rpa
rpa
11/24/2010 8:13:17 AM #

Too much moonshine last night I guess, couldn't stay awake for the arb-deadline fun.

I'm a little surprised they didn't offer Rhodes arbitration, only because he'll be a type A free agent and I'm assuming someone would offer him a contract.

I hope the find a way to bring back Rhodes, but if not this team has some young guys that could step up.  For instance - I hope Thompson finds a way to justify that 40-man roster spot.

River Otter
River Otter
11/24/2010 9:49:47 AM #

Do the Reds have a limited amount of time to negotiate a new contract with Rhodes? I'm trying to remember the rules when a team declines to offer a player arbitration.

VottoLoco
VottoLoco
11/24/2010 9:55:15 AM #

I'm sure I saw this episode as a re-run sometime when I was too young to remember it, but I just watched it (again) yesterday.  This is good stuff:

http://www.imdb.com/video/hulu/vi254935065/

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!

River Otter
River Otter
11/24/2010 10:26:27 AM #

"The turkeys are hitting the ground like bags of wet cement!"  "Thanks for that report, Les."

Classic episode.

VottoLoco
VottoLoco
11/24/2010 10:05:25 AM #

I just read a note about Berkman where he was quoted selling himself as a potential outfielder for an interested team.  Seeing as how he seems to hit better at GABP than just about anywhere else, would it be worth it to offer a 35 yr old 1B/OF a 1-2 year contract?  This is probably just silly, but I wanted to hear your opinions.

River Otter
River Otter
11/24/2010 10:27:24 AM #

I'm not sure Berkman can hit or play defense any better than Gomes at this point in his career.  Plus, he doesn't have a mohawk.

btalbert25
btalbert25
11/24/2010 10:32:32 AM #

It wouldn't bother me any.  He's going to be better in the field that Gomes, and he's still got some pop left.  Not to mention he's another great clubhouse guy.  He would certainly have a lower price than he would have commanded a few years ago.  

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
11/24/2010 4:01:56 PM #

The guy averags less than 100 Ks per season. He has a very high clutchiness factor. He could be a geat influence on the younger guys. If his legs are good and they think he can still play LF, I say "why not". Of ourse, the price has to be acceptable. He could be the LH platoon in LF and 1st bat off the bench.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
11/24/2010 4:13:22 PM #

The more I look at it, the more I like it. I wonder what kind of money he wants. Good OBP and hits righties really well. Could spell Gomes and Votto.

btalbert25
btalbert25
11/24/2010 5:30:05 PM #

I really like the idea.  Not sure what kind of salary he would be after though.  Walt, if you're watching, go ahead and get this done.  

Amy
Amy
11/24/2010 3:48:55 PM #

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone! Safe travels and blissful eating to all. Don't forget to watch Punkin Chunkin tomorrow night--that's totally my new Thanksgiving tradition.

btalbert25
btalbert25
11/24/2010 5:28:43 PM #

If it's the same Pumkin Chuckin, one of these years I'm going to make the trip to Delaware and witness it first hand.  I want to see a pumpkin get launched 1/2 a mile lol.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
11/25/2010 12:31:06 PM #

Amy, how did I know you would like pumpkin artillery? for some reason, I'm not surprised. Happy Thanksgiving to all of you.

rpa
rpa
11/24/2010 9:13:40 PM #

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.

This is a Reds Thanksgiving for me.  Maybe it's because my other favorite sports teams are the Seahawks (they can't seem to lock down the NFC West.  I've seen high school teams that could win the NFC West), the 76ers (I promised I was done after they traded Barkley, but I stuck around... and then they dumped Iverson, but I stuck around... then they dumped Dalembert... and now I just don't care anymore.  They may not win another game this season) and, worst of all, the Islanders (even the announcer prefers Mets pre-season baseball to announcing an Islanders game: sports.yahoo.com/.../Video-Islanders-announcer-caught-being-honest-).  

Don't get me wrong, I'm not all about sports.  But, my job sucks, too.  The rest of my life is no great shakes at this point, either (what ever is left after working 80 hours a week).  But at least there's baseball.

So, you know, I'm thankful the Reds had a winning season, even if they didn't show up for the playoffs.  I spent a week arranging my life so I could spend a night flying back to Cincy to watch them get dumped by the Phils.  What did they do?  Not hit?  Thhhpt.

I'll be spending the next two days wandering around the Ohio Valley, visiting in-laws and looking for some more moonshine so I can deal with said in-laws.

Still, I find some hope in the fact the Reds might win the division again in 2011, and now that they've been in a playoff game or two... maybe there's a chance...


Happy Thanksgiving.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
11/25/2010 8:43:48 AM #

Happy Thanksgiving gang.
  I think everyone here has plenty to be thankful for. Joey Votto for one. Even outside the game (is there really life outside the game?), we all have so much to be thankful for. Hey, we're not Pirates fans. Oh yeh, outside the game.... Me I'm thankful for this great country we live in, for the abundance we are blessed with, for a huge, beautiful family, wonderful friends, an opportunity to reap the benefits of a free and open society, Christian heritage, RedsOctober and Reds baseball. Thanks to all of you and have a great day.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
11/25/2010 12:37:27 PM #

Daddy,What do we have to be thankful for?

Son,I'm thankful I don't play for the Reds because they are cheaters with their slick balls and mean players.

Does Mr. McGwire think the Reds are cheaters too?

Hey, look son, the Snoopy balloon is flying over New York !  

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
11/25/2010 4:35:36 PM #

I give thanks for an internet connection(no access for 6 days)

I give thanks for a bed after a big dinner.

I give thanks to the endless supply of Carp/son conversations.

I give thanks to not having NFL Network. I couldn't take another Bengals game. Made good money on a halftime bet in Vegas Sunday.

I give thanks to Reds October for keeping me in the loop when work takes over my life.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
11/26/2010 7:26:04 AM #

Smile

Redwakeup
Redwakeup
11/29/2010 9:10:49 AM #

Ha! The old switcharoo!

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/25/2010 4:58:37 PM #

I give thanks for this:
www1.macys.com/.../index.ognc

genewv
genewv
11/26/2010 9:09:58 AM #

Votto,

Thanks for the WKRP link on the "Big Guy's" Thanksgiving promotion! My all-time favorite episode of a really good series. I guess I am eat up with nostalgia at my age, but I laughed till I cried---literally.

Daughter came into my office to see what the heck was going on, as i was laughing like crazy with no one in here but me, she got into watching it as well! Don't know if she was laughing at the show, or me?

rpa
rpa
11/26/2010 11:20:40 PM #

I'm thankful that the holiday is over and I am back home.

I used to like Thanksgiving a lot.  It was one of the lower-stress holidays.  Have some food, watch some football.

Now, the whole Black Friday thing has completely overtaken the holiday.  Giving thanks for the fact that people are willing to wait in line at 5 in the morning to get a 50% discount on a blender or something.  Someone has to support the economy, I guess.

Over the years, I have developed an excellent strategy for avoiding the madness.  My wife's grandfather is no longer well enough physically to go on the shopping trips.  In fact, his entire world is pretty much reduced to the house at this point.  He's not really well enough to leave the house (I knew it was serious when he stopped going to mass, now the sisters have to bring him communion).  Combined with the fact that my mother-in-law has a dog that's no spring chicken either (15 year-old dachshund), we have a dog that doesn't do well being left in unfamiliar places, and my wife's grandparents have an incredibly incontinent dog of their own that basically requires a trip outside every 90 minutes or so.... all those factors combine and it just makes sense for someone to stay at the house.  I'm always glad to volunteer, mainly for a chance to talk to the old man.

It's always a treat.  Without the noise in the rest of the house (and everyone fussing over him, which he detests), he loves to sit and talk.  I always get to hear about something fun.  A couple of years ago, it was stories about him running home from school to catch the second half of his beloved Indians games on the radio.  His mother learned how to keep score for him so he could catch up when he got home.  Last year, it was about how one of the thrills of his young life was going to Pittsburgh to catch a Reds - Pirates game to see one of his favorite players, Frank McCormick.

This year, I learned for the first time that I know someone who saw Josh Gibson play baseball.  Seriously amazing stuff.
Apparently, the Grays would sometimes travel around the region, I suppose barnstorming, and play at high school fields and other small parks.  

All of the other normal topics of conversation (the history of the Delaware Indians in the Ohio Country, debating the relative merits of various founding fathers (today's conclusion - he isn't sure he thinks much of Thomas Jefferson, aside from his eye for assembling a good Library)

So maybe the day after Thanksgiving isn't so bad after all, as long as I don't have to go shopping.



Bonus weirdness. .. My mother in law knows her football pretty well, in a way.  She certainly understands the game right down to the details.  It took me a while to figure this out, because she has an interesting approach to football fandom.  Her football watching centers around WVU.  Not so strange, seeing as she's from the area, lives in WV, etc.  The interesting part is that she cheers for the team when she likes them, and against them when she doesn't.  The closest thing I can think of to compare it to is professional wrestling, where you have a wrestler who goes from being a bad guy to being a good guy and back to being a bad guy again, etc...  

I'm not talking about folks who might be happy to see a team lose a key game to get rid of a coach they don't like.  She will make a point to watch the games and cheer for the other team.  The reasons from one year to the next as to why she likes and dislikes each year's team can vary.  Often it's "I don't like this coach" or "I think the players look lazy this year" or "I really like that kid they have at running back, he's a hard worker.".  Generally, it's really vague and I am never quite sure I understand the reasoning.  It doesn't seem to have anything to do with whether the team is winning or losing, either.

So apparently, this is a year where she doesn't like them.  It seems this revolves around around her general dislike of Bill Stewart, though I wasn't able to get to the bottom of the reason this.  So she was cheering for Pitt today.  Alas, Pitt had problems holding on to the football and she was disappointed by the outcome.  At the end of the game she said "I like that guy they hired at Marshall."

People confuse me sometimes.

Amy
Amy
11/27/2010 9:32:25 AM #

Sounds like a really good way to spend the day. I'm not a Black Friday person, either...I have gone out exactly once, several years ago, when my oldest REALLY wanted the Lego Millenium Falcon for Christmas and there was no way he was getting it at full price (Lego is freakin' expensive)...and then Target had it 50% off on Black Friday. I was amazed this year--we came back into town around 8 Thursday night, drove past a Best Buy on the way to the house and there were already people in TENTS waiting in line, in the cold and rain. Maybe I'm just getting old, but I'd rather pay the extra money on whatever I want than spend the night outside in late November waiting for it. Seriously.

Mary
Mary
11/27/2010 4:01:08 PM #


CincinnatiReds Cincinnati Reds
Dontrelle Willis now confirmed for #Redsfest

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/27/2010 7:59:02 PM #

That's why they signed him! All makes sense now.

RedFaced
RedFaced
11/27/2010 9:58:08 PM #

rpa, just fyi.  Thomas Jefferson was perhaps the best President EVER.  I knew him in a past life I think but I don't recall.  

rpa
rpa
11/27/2010 10:08:33 PM #

Yeah, I have some mixed feelings about Jefferson, myself.  He had his good and bad points.  Mostly just relaying the story.  Really, I just find it amusing that I know someone that has such a strong opinion about him.

(Personally, I've always thought Hamilton was by far the most interesting of all those guys.  And that's all that really matters at this point.)

I think that, from a modern media perspective, Andrew Jackson was the best president ever.  He'd probably make for the best movie.  Certainly would be most entertaining to watch govern.



RedFaced
RedFaced
11/28/2010 2:13:28 PM #

Let's do a new TV series and call it "If They Ran Today" and we'll have reenactments of old Presidential races but on today's issues.  Yeah, maybe not.  

Oh well it's just too darn slow on the baseball front right now.  December is usually a little more active so here's hoping we get some good news (how about a trade Walt?).

rpa
rpa
11/28/2010 2:38:23 PM #

If they ran today...  Heh.  Very few of our great presidents would have been electable today.  You have to be devoid of personality and opinion to make it through the meatgrinder today, and unfortunately a lack of personality and opinion is not compatible with leadership in most cases.   One of the many reasons that our country is doomed.  DOOMED, I say.


This morning I caught some of David Laurila from Baseball Prospectus on the radio with Ken Broo.  His comments: the Reds are ready to contend now, so they just need to make a couple of moves:

1) Make a serious run at Carl Crawford.  If that doesn't work, see if you can get a year of Johnny Damon.  Avoid Podsednik, he is too expensive for what he is.  Failing all that, more playing time for Heisey

2) Go get an "ace'...  Trade for Greinke.  Even if it means letting go of Chapman.

3) Jason Bartlett might be available for SS, if that doesn't work out Janish is OK as a starter.

4) Get someone to spell Rolen, no way he turns in another performance like 2010 in terms of durability.  Ty Wigginton might work.

5) Make it clear that the team has no plans to trade Phillips/Votto/Bruce/etc.  Then immediately ask a team if those guys WERE available, what would they be willing to offer.  Let someone overwhelm you with an offer.

(I think that 5th point goes for any team.  Nobody is untouchable if someone offers you a deal that's ridiculous enough).

The conversation kind of wandered into a discussion of the Reds having to make moves to get to the next level, making it sound like Laurila pretty much thinks that nobody in the division can close the gap between this year and next year.  I'm not so sure that's true (I think that Cardinals team is better than anyone is giving them credit for, due to how awful they looked late this season), but it is a reminder the Reds are no longer a team worrying about the long-term and worrying about potential.  This is now a team with a good shot at the playoffs, they need to run the team accordingly.

Uncle Walt has some experience in that regard, let's hope it pays off.

rpa
rpa
11/28/2010 2:41:28 PM #

(Can you picture, say, Lincoln getting a bloody lip in a pickup basketball game?  Or maybe Washington getting his dentures knocked out by falling off of his bike?)

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
11/28/2010 3:51:55 PM #

Is anyone going to Redsfest?

Mary
Mary
11/28/2010 4:57:57 PM #

DTrain is

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
11/29/2010 10:49:57 AM #

Who the hell is D Train ?

Timothy Wyant
Timothy Wyant
11/29/2010 10:58:07 AM #

Dontrelle Willis

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
11/29/2010 11:55:05 AM #

My bad! Brain cramp!

Amy
Amy
11/28/2010 7:36:00 PM #

I *want* to, but can't figure out how to make it work. How screwed up is it that it's easier for me to get to AZ for 3-4 days than it is to go to Cincy for the day?? My life is weird.

rpa
rpa
11/28/2010 9:25:15 PM #

I'm in the same situation.  It's starting to look like Redsfest is out for me, even though i live about 5 miles from where it's being held and theoretically I am going to be home that weekend (except not AT home, thus the problem.  Too much going on that weekend).

Still working on it...  I can kind of take or leave the thing, really, but I do enjoy it.  I guess it would be cooler if I were more of an autograph person.  But I do like the Q&A's with the crowd and stuff.  And just having an excuse to think about baseball for a day or two in December.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
11/29/2010 10:56:31 AM #

The Little Guy and I are going, probably Friday early. I'm not much of an autograph guy either, but it's good to spend some baseball time in the winter with him.
Amy, I'm with you on having a weird life. Somehow it's easier for me to spend a whole evening 20 miles from my house than it is to spend a couple of hours going to see to my friends band, who is playing 5 minutes away.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/28/2010 5:22:46 PM #

Apologies (sort of) to the Marlins. Uggla for: Two relievers, Infante, Buck, and Vazquez will probably turn out well for them.

However, that initial trade of Uggla is still disgustingly underwhelming. Relievers. Yuck.

Mary
Mary
11/29/2010 4:31:49 PM #

I was just browsing and checked out John Fay's story on Votto that was in yesterday's Enquirer.  This paragraph caught my eye and made  me wonder if 1Franciso has the discipline to pattern himself after Joey and see if he too can take the step necessary to become a good defensive player.

The rap on Votto in the minors – and it was a legitimate one – was he was weak defensively. He spent hour after hour working on defense last offseason. The result? He’s an above-average defender.

Mary
Mary
11/29/2010 4:33:07 PM #

I'm not sure that Yonder Alonso would benefit as much, as I don't see him as athletic enough to become more than adequate on the field (and only at first base)

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
11/29/2010 5:28:45 PM #

Anyone will benefit from extra work and practice. If you saw me throw as a 2B my freshman year you would have never predicted that I would be the best arm in the OF and a pitcher with above avg velocity.

I changed everything over a summer working out with a coach and a VCR.

River Otter
River Otter
11/29/2010 6:26:32 PM #

Agreed, although it wouldn't hurt.  My recollection is that one of our fellow RO members who saw Yonder play in the minors last year wasn't impressed with his attitude and work ethic.  Perhaps Yonder should spend some time training with Votto during the offseason.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
11/29/2010 9:28:30 PM #

No, I was not impressed the first time I saw him. He looked like one of the guys who felt the game owed him something.His body language and approach to the game looked much better the 2nd and 3rd time I saw him.

River Otter
River Otter
11/30/2010 9:43:58 AM #

Good to hear.  Hopefully he'll work hard on his defense during the offseason.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
11/29/2010 5:27:51 PM #

I think that anyone who can hit a slider 500 feet and throw a baseball through a sheet of plywood has ample athletic ability. Lots of guys with ability never get to the Bigs. You need a combination of skills, smarts, motivation, a good work ethic and a little luck. For every Joey Votto there must be 50 "can't miss" guys who never pan out. Even ore reason to appreciate the ones who do.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
11/29/2010 9:30:34 PM #

I played HS ball with one like that. He was a first round draft choice pitcher who played about 30 days in the bigs. The ultimate million dollar arm and ten cent head.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/29/2010 8:04:12 PM #

THE WINTER MEETINGS NEED TO GET HERE ASAP!

That is all.

genewv
genewv
11/29/2010 9:38:12 PM #

Hey guys and gals. Still lurking, reading. Just wanted to let you know I had not died, could still read and post.

On Yonder, and like individuals. Talent is never enough, only a starting place. Some can never make it, because they do not have starter talent. However, as already posted, it takes a whole lot more to get a shot at MLB, and even more to stick once you make, and something much beyond to be a star--at least for any period of time.

rpa
rpa
11/29/2010 10:44:33 PM #

I once heard someone (I wish I could remember who... I'm guessing it was a coach, but I don't know) say that you can often overcome a lack of talent with extra work and preparation, but there aren't too many people that can overcome a lack of work and preparation and just get by on their talent.

That's probably overly simplistic, but it's the right idea.  I'm guessing that no amount of hard work would have turned me in to an olympic sprinter.  A lot of work (and ever more preparation and observation) turned me into a decent base stealer though, especially against bad competition.  I could spot a pitcher without a pickoff move and a catcher with a crappy release a mile away.

River Otter
River Otter
11/30/2010 9:44:47 AM #

Well said.

btalbert25
btalbert25
11/30/2010 9:21:10 AM #

In my opinion, you must have talent to make it.  Hard work is very very important, but if you weren't born with great hand eye coordination, no matter how hard you work, you will never be a great hitter.  You may not have to have an arm like Chapman's to make it, but if you were only born with an arm that can throw a ball 75-80 mph, 99 percent of the time you are only going to be a high school or college player.  Very hard work takes someone like Votto, who had all the talent in the world as a hitter from being an average guy to MVP in the MLB.

If Willy Mo Pena had Votto's work ethic he would have been one of the best players in the MLB.  However, I could work my arse off and never make it as far as Willy Mo did.

River Otter
River Otter
11/30/2010 10:39:14 AM #

Doug Gray has a nice season review on Dave Sappelt redsminorleagues.com/.../

Sounds like Rick Sweet thinks he could use some more time in Louisville, but wow did he have a nice year.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
11/30/2010 4:03:17 PM #

Did you notice how many doubles he had to right (oppo)? Looks like he sprays it around pretty good for a guy with that kind of pop. Good to see. Safe to say I will be pulling for him to win the starting LF job in March. He looks like "just what the doctor ordered". I wonder if he can leadoff?

genewv
genewv
11/30/2010 12:03:02 PM #

RPA,

Now we know why you don't have a Greyhound as your avatar!

However, those Beagles ( That is what your avatar looks like to the untrained eye )sure could get a lot of fast rabbits to come out in the open--to their demise--all on smell, patience, learning their prey, training, etc.

If the avatar is not a Beagle, I will just have to eat a little crow--nothing new for me.

rpa
rpa
11/30/2010 1:09:34 PM #

He's at least part beagle.  We've yet to figure out what the rest of it is.  My guess is some kind of terrier.

We have a dog that barks like a beagle with the demeanor of a jack russell.  Let's just say he's a lot of work.

Redwakeup
Redwakeup
11/30/2010 4:16:29 PM #

He can't be all Jack Russell unless you have an extremely fast shutter speed. There appears to be no gray on his face so I'm assuming that he is less than 10 Years old. (That's when my two Jack Russells started slowing down.)Ha

rpa
rpa
11/30/2010 6:55:47 PM #

We know he's half beagle and half something else pretty small, because he's holding steady at 20 lbs.  

He's ultra hyper and he can jump about 4 feet straight up into the air.

I don't know.  I have an aunt with two Jack Russells and he reminds me up them a lot, except with more barking.  Lots more barking.

rpa
rpa
11/30/2010 6:56:16 PM #

Oh, this is a picture from when he was a puppy.  He's four years old now.

genewv
genewv
11/30/2010 2:35:12 PM #

QAh, is that rascal a male, or female? That might tell us more abut that personality than breed type?

Hope no squirrels are around.

Mary
Mary
11/30/2010 3:04:32 PM #

..ahem...

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
11/30/2010 8:46:19 PM #

Not happy to see The Riot back in the NL Central. NL Cental teams won't be happy either. For a .280 hitter he performs much better against the Central except for STL

I'm sure he'll kill the Cubbies too.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
11/30/2010 8:49:56 PM #

?

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/30/2010 8:56:48 PM #

Ryan Theriot, traded to Cardinals for Hawksworth, making a bad St. L bullpen even worse.

Mary
Mary
11/30/2010 8:53:50 PM #

Think Grizz was right--the Reds did sign Willis to be at Redsfest.  I saw this is  Hal McCoy's blog today:

On The Sean Casey Nice Guy Scale, Dontrelle Willis is close to a ’10,’ one of the nicest guys this side of a pitcher’s mound. If he can still pitch, fine, the Reds have a nugget.

If not, well, it will be super to have Willis in camp when spring training commences in Goodyear, Ariz. in mid-February.

timothy Wyant
timothy Wyant
11/30/2010 10:05:17 PM #

If St. Louis signed Theriot to be their everyday shortstop in place of Brendan Ryan, and they play Theriot-Schumaker up the middle, they have made their team worse than last year.  Unbelievable.  Then again, maybe they just want Theriot to be their insurance policy at 3rd base.  Sometimes that ballclub mystifies me...    

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/30/2010 10:32:03 PM #

I think I read somewhere they want Theriot to take over at second.

rpa
rpa
11/30/2010 10:33:07 PM #

Trading Hawksworth for Theriot is an interesting move.

I think the trade makes sense when you compare the two players.  At least if you think Theriot can regain his form from a couple of years ago when he used to draw some walks.  

As a Freel-type super-utility guy Theriot's got some value, a lot of value if he gets his plate discipline back.  

Hawksworth is nothing special, but he's servicable.  I think Dodger Stadium will make him look a little better than he really is.  


The question is if this trade makes the Cardinals better.  I can't picture LaRussa moving Schumaker off of 2B, he seems to love the guy.  Ryan was abysmal with the bat but he's a good shortstop.  Maybe almost a great shortstop.  Theriot doesn't have the arm to play 3B every day... so if the plan is to use him to beef up the offense... well, they got a guy that looks like a good #2 hitter.  What they really need is someone behind Pujols and Holliday.

I guess what I'm saying is that if the Cards see Theriot as the answer to any problem they have... I'm not sure what it is.   I would have been content with a healthy David Freese hitting 2nd and leaving Ryan in the 8 (or since it's LaGenius, 9) spot in the lineup.  I'm not sure how this makes them better overall.

rpa
rpa
11/30/2010 10:35:03 PM #

I find it amusing that we're trying to figure out what role the Reds have in mind for Dontrelle Willis, joking that he was signed so he could sign (autographs) at Redsfest.

5 years ago, he would have been pencilled in as the #4 starter.  

It's nice to be a fan of a team that doesn't absolutely suck.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
11/30/2010 11:48:16 PM #

Adam LaRoche and Felipe Lopez decline arbitration. These guys' agents should be barred. Unless if they had agreements w/ their teams to decline (which you think they would have exercised by now) that's just silly.

Felipe may not get a MLB offer, and LaRoche is going to be looking at 3-4 mil, a big pay cut. Horrible, horrible, horrible. Apparently these agents don't value their commissions very much, b/c they had to convince these guys to accept.

Moreover, I can't believe those 2 organizations were lucky enough to have them not accept.

rpa
rpa
12/1/2010 12:34:12 AM #

Lopez will get a job.  A guy who masquerades as a middle infielder with his kind of pop will get an offer.

You have to remember, Lopez was signed for $1 mil last year and had a bad year... some team will take a chance on him at $2 mil.  He didn't want to risk staying on the bench in Boston for $1.2 mil.  He can get more than that elsewhere... even if it's one of those CP23-style "minor league" invites.  Guy still has a viable bat, and some GM will think he's a shortstop.


As for LaRoche... yeah.   He thinks those 25 HR he hit are worth more than 4.5 mil he made this year, which ain't gonna happen because his peripheral stats absolutely suck.  Maybe he agent thinks the D-Backs checks will start bouncing half-way though the 2011 season.


As for the organizations... I think the Sox had enough cash to risk $1-$2 mil for Lopez considering he is a type B, and LaRoche was also type B who might get $5 mil or so in arb, and both clubs were willing to call the bluff... the Sox and D-Backs knew these guys wanted multi-year deals.  Since Lopez is ostensibly a 2B/SS and LaRoche theoretically is a power hitter (both things are in short supply in the current FA crop), the agents probably figured that multi-year deals are out there, someplace.

So, when it comes to agent malpractice... well, if Lopez gets a 2-year, $4 mil deal and Ad. LaRoche gets a 2-year, $8 or $9 mil deal... the agents and the players are happy.  And so are the teams... they'll get compensation for offering arb to type-B FAs.

The Elias rankings for FAs are broken.  One of these days, they will be fixed.





Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/1/2010 12:52:06 AM #

Oh, my bad. I thought Flip was in the 5 million dollar range last year, and I thought LaRoche was around 7 (BR actually shows 6, so he'd get between that and 8 probably).

But yeah, point taken as to Flip, LaRoche on the other hand, I dunno about that one. Wait and see. I think the market's going to suck hard.

As to Lopez, I still don't think he will get much of anything, but 1 mil wasn't much to risk at all. Forgot that the Cardinals got him on that insane contract after the great year he had.

rpa
rpa
12/1/2010 12:55:56 AM #

Of course both guys (and their agents) think they can do better.

That's the nature of exceptionalism.

Timothy Wyant
Timothy Wyant
12/1/2010 10:56:32 AM #

Here's what Mozeliak had to say in the post dispatch article about the Theriot trade.

"This is not necessarily the last move we will make before opening day," general manager John Mozeliak said. "But if we did have to start today, (Theriot) would likely be our shortstop."

I like the Theriot signing from a Reds' fan perspective.  Their defense is weaker, Schumaker is still being misused as a second baseman, And their best defensive SS is trade bait or going to be used as a pinch hitter, a role he is ill suited for.  

Did you know the Cards have only three LH pitchers on theri forty man roster?
Trevor Miller
Brian Tallet
Jaime Garcia

Not alot of depth there

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/1/2010 11:02:17 AM #

Mozeliak, jeezus. Ryan Theriot as a starting SS?

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
12/1/2010 11:59:58 AM #

Daddy, is it true we got Mr. O' Terry ?

That's Mr. Terry O

Sorry

Yes ,It's true.

Does that mean you won't be able to yell at Mr. Ryan anymore like you do to me when I pick my nose.

That's right, I won't have to put up with that unprepared little,no bat elf at shortstop every day.

Daddy, is it true that Mr. O' Ter ,  I mean Mr. Terry O has the range of a World War One tank.

That's right son.

Will you yell at him about that?

Probably.

I love it when you're mean to people. You're my hero!

You can yell at him about that, right?

Redwakeup
Redwakeup
12/1/2010 1:41:04 PM #

Awesome! I overheard the rest of the conversation.

Dad?

Yes, son?

Didn't Mr. Terry O play for the Cubs last year?

Yes, son he played for them until just before the trade deadline.

Dad, I thought that you hated all Cubs?

I do, son. All Cardinals are supposed to hate the Cubs.

But dad, why would a Cub want to come here if all Cardinals are supposed to hate Cubs.

Because we are the best team in the National League Central, that's why! All of the Cubs want to be Cardinals.... Heck, all baseball players want to be Cardinals! Cause we are the best!

But dad, The Reds just won the National League Central. Doesn't that make them the best?

Slippery Balls Son! The Reds won because they cheated with slippery balls! Geez... We've talked about this before! Everyone knows we are still the best!

Dad, bad Uncle Rolen was a Cardinal, but now he is a Red. Why would he leave if the Cardinals are the best?

Slippery Balls!!! Bad Uncle Rolen isn't any good any more so we got rid of him....I didn't like him anyways.

But dad, didn't bad Uncle Rolen win the Gold Glove this year?

Slippery Balls!! Slippery Balls!! Slippery Balls!! (sobs)

Dad, are you crying? Why are you crying? There's no crying in baseball!!



Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
12/1/2010 1:50:37 PM #

This thing could take on a life of it's own, like the Hitler rant videos. Carp and his kid videos !

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
12/1/2010 2:22:40 PM #

Absolute perfection. If there's one thing better than unconditionally loving a baseball team that's actually good, it's unconditionally loving a baseball team that's actually good that also has a rival to unconditionally despise.

Keep em coming!

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
12/1/2010 2:59:55 PM #

I have little advantage. I have a ten year old son, who is a bit of a wise ass.(I wonder where that comes from?) Just being around him is like living on a comedy material farm.

Redwakeup
Redwakeup
12/1/2010 3:13:13 PM #

Even at 46, I still have a lot of 10 year old wise ass in me. I told Amy that we needed to collect all of these "Carp and kid" stories from the different starters and create another thread just for them. No matter how bad your day was, you could laugh at Carpenter and his kid.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
12/1/2010 12:02:34 PM #

Delete the last line.Or insert that line 3 lines above. Your choice. Amy, I need a professional copy editor or at least an edit button.

Redwakeup
Redwakeup
12/1/2010 3:55:50 PM #

Anyone see this about Ian Desmond. He is pretty well thought of by the Nationals but they are wanting starting pitching. I have not looked at any comparisons between him and Janish. I just thought that it looked interesting. Discuss.

www.rotoworld.com/content/headlines.aspx?sport=MLB

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/1/2010 4:00:29 PM #

Paul who?

DocProc
DocProc
12/1/2010 4:37:42 PM #

Um, Desmond made 34 errors last year.  No thanks.

rpa
rpa
12/1/2010 10:09:40 PM #

Desmond might be a good ballplayer, but for now I see a guy who makes a bunch of errors and strikes out a ton and doesn't walk much.

He's got a good arm and he's fast.  Maybe he's really an outfielder?

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/1/2010 10:22:01 PM #

Once again, it appears I have spoken too soon. Looked up his #s, ugly. How they heck can they hype that kid so much? Adequate offensively if he was a great defensive SS, but he's horrible.

I can see why they want to trade him, see if anybody else buys the hype.

Heck, he has 348 minor league at bats (his 09 season) w/ #s that would be above average at the majors, but that's not how that works. Obviously you'd expect some drop off, maybe to average below average offensively.

But he's got about 1400 other minor league at bats that say he will be worthless as an MLB player. And a 2010 season that agrees.

I don't know how Rosenthal wrote this w/ a straight face, after looking into the #s: "It might not be the right time to trade a player such as Desmond, particularly for a pitcher such as Royals right-hander Zack Greinke, who has only two years left on his contract."

Redwakeup
Redwakeup
12/1/2010 11:29:10 PM #

I didn't know about his stats. I just saw the notice on Rotoworld just before I left work to go shoot some pool. I should have checked before I posted. I will try to stick with Carp and Son stories.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/1/2010 11:39:53 PM #

Oh no worries, I fell into the trap all on my own. I thought it'd be a great move initially, then I read Doc's post and decided to look at his #s. I just assumed they were good since he gets talked up a lot. U-G-L-Y.

Redwakeup
Redwakeup
12/2/2010 8:54:48 AM #

Yeah, I had heard on XM Radio that he was a good young shortstop, so when I saw the notice on Rotoworld yesterday, I posted before I compared stats. Oops!

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/1/2010 4:22:31 PM #

Wily Mo best watch out for those rattlesnakes in AZ this summer. Minor league contract, invite to ST for him w/ the D'Backs.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
12/1/2010 5:07:28 PM #

He'll fit in well with the D Backs. He could add to the "a swing and a miss" totals.

Amy
Amy
12/2/2010 10:28:56 AM #

Wow:
www.mlbtraderumors.com/.../...-ryan-available.html

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
12/2/2010 12:18:01 PM #

Unbelievable. Honestly.

Brendan Ryan WAR:

2009 - 2.7
2010 - 1.0

Ryan Theriot WAR:

2009 - 2.3
2010 - 0.0

So let's get this straight: the genius Cardinals gave up a good, young arm to get worse at shortstop. As a Reds fan, let me say 'thanks.'

It was one thing if Theriot was the second baseman. But if you're going to trade the best defensive shortstop in baseball, that's just illogical.

Who else thinks this is 100% because of Chris Carpenter?

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/2/2010 12:25:22 PM #

Wow, didn't even think about the Carpenter factor. You gotta think that was a key. Last year they caved for Albert and brought in Holliday for way too much and way too long. Mozeliak is not what you look for in a GM.

Amy
Amy
12/2/2010 12:47:44 PM #

That was the first thing I thought about. WLB.

Timothy Wyant
Timothy Wyant
12/2/2010 12:31:10 PM #

But honestly, I don't know why Carpenter would even want to make this move.  Mozeliak polled his pitchers before they traded for Pedro Feliz and they all said they would prefer a defensive upgrade at 3rd base over an offensive upgrade at 3rd base.  So now the pitchers want to go in the opposite direction at a position (SS) that is more important than even 3rd?  This is the same pitching staff that had the highest ground ball rate in the NL last year at over 60%.

If Carp wants to get rid of Ryan, it must be a personal thing.  That clubhouse must be an epic disaster.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/2/2010 12:34:32 PM #

It's a personal thing. Reports have been that he doesn't think Ryan is focused or something like that. ESPN caught him ripping Ryan after the first inning of a Cards Reds game for not being ready at the start of the game.

Amy
Amy
12/2/2010 12:48:41 PM #

I predict he'll have a kickass season with whatever team he ends up with. Spite is a powerful motivator.

Timothy Wyant
Timothy Wyant
12/2/2010 11:19:14 AM #

Today's world cup vote makes me realize that, as much as I hate Bud Selig and the way they run MLB, at least they're not as corrupt as the FIFA governing body that decided it would be a good idea to play the 2022 tournament in Qatar, with 50 degree Celsius temperatures, middle eastern terrorism, all in a nation the size of Connecticut with the population of Grand Rapids, MI.

Amazing how bags of cash can make people do incredibly stupid things.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
12/2/2010 1:09:11 PM #

That really sucks. FIFA is without a doubt, the most corrupt sports organization in the world. I'm sure Qatar will do fine, considering the wealth of resources, but I don't know how it gives the event the big stage it needs.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/2/2010 1:18:03 PM #

IOC's up there, but yeah, FIFA is the worst. America is where the most potential for soccer growth is. It's where the money's at. You bring the game to America, unless if you're stupid and wrapped up either in eastern hemisphere pride or corruption.

River Otter
River Otter
12/2/2010 11:00:47 PM #

Probably both.  At least this article explains that the US hosting the World Cup in 2022 wasn't quite the slam dunk most of us thought:  espn.go.com/.../us-world-cup-bid-swings-misses

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/2/2010 11:06:15 PM #

All I've got to say is wow.

Shame on us, I guess. I also heard Clinton tried to promote his own initiative or something. You'd think Bill Clinton and Morgan Freeman could get the job done. They both failed.

River Otter
River Otter
12/2/2010 11:23:38 PM #

Yeah, it doesn't sound like it was a real smooth presentation.  Still, I think your arrogance and corruption comment still has some merit, as evidenced by the fact that FIFA didn't feel it had sufficient government guarantees (i.e., you must guarantee that money is no object and you'll do whatever we want).  Sounds like the fact that the US hosted the event in 1994 also came into play.

Amy
Amy
12/2/2010 12:43:22 PM #

Hey folks, our friend RedScoop will be at Redsfest, as one of the baseball card vendors. Look for the Sideline Sports booth and say hello, if you're headed to Redsfest!

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
12/2/2010 12:50:50 PM #

will do !

Amy
Amy
12/2/2010 12:59:50 PM #

More on Brendan Ryan:
www.stltoday.com/.../...65a-9493-af9dce318364.html

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/2/2010 1:41:14 PM #

If Vancouver ever gets an MLB team, they should go back to early Vancouver baseball roots and choose this name: www.baseball-reference.com/.../Vancouver_Horse_Doctors

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
12/2/2010 2:10:21 PM #

Anyone interested in Tony Gwynn as an extra outfielder? He's got some speed, and had an OBP of .350 in 09. Anyone?

(note: I will probably make a similar post about a dozen other guys today as the non-tenders are announced. I'm excited already.)

Timothy Wyant
Timothy Wyant
12/2/2010 2:48:17 PM #

Sappelt>Gwynn Jr right now

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
12/2/2010 2:12:07 PM #

And while we're here, how bout Jose Lopez as a backup/insurance for Rolen? Dude was an All-Star a couple years ago.

Mary
Mary
12/2/2010 2:59:07 PM #

Anyone feel there might be a bit of hyperbole in this from Bleacherreports (on the top ten prospects?

After signing Aroldis Chapman to a six-year contract worth $30.25 million dollars, everyone waited anxiously for the "Cuban Missile" to make his major league debut.

On August 31, 2010, everyone watched in awe when Chapman took the mound for the Reds.

He throws 100-plus MPH.  He's unhittable and, although he might be spending 2011 in the bullpen, Chapman will one day win the Cy Young award.

It might not be next season or in 2012.

But when his career is over, you will be thankful you got the opportunity to see one of the greatest pitchers in baseball history.

Remember his name.  He's going to be one of the greats.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/2/2010 3:02:14 PM #

More like downplay-bole. They aren't giving Aroldis enough credit!

Amy
Amy
12/2/2010 3:11:25 PM #

from Bleacherreports? Never.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
12/2/2010 4:45:09 PM #

Man - Matt Diaz sounds pretty promising. His career line (.301/.350/.456) is so great that even though he was down last year, I've got to wonder why Atlanta's letting him go.

He'd sure look great in left next year, wouldn't he?

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
12/2/2010 9:25:22 PM #

yea, we need a left handed bat in the outfield to come from somewhere.  Nix, Edmonds, or somebody else, but we need a LH hitter in the outfield besides Bruce.  Not to mention that we need a solid guy that can keep Gomes from getting 500 AB's next year.

Mary
Mary
12/2/2010 10:38:04 PM #

Hey--I see you made it back as timmytwoshoezz. Did you use the same browser that would not let you in with this user name recently?

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
12/2/2010 10:57:43 PM #

yep, using Safari.   It seems I had the posting problem only on the page that I wrote the starter for.  Maybe that means I shouldn't write anymore  Smile

Mary
Mary
12/3/2010 10:47:09 AM #

definitely not the case--want to write another one soon?

River Otter
River Otter
12/2/2010 4:48:36 PM #

2011 ZIPS projections for the Reds: www.baseballthinkfactory.org/.../

Take them with a grain of salt, but they're fun to look at.

Amy
Amy
12/2/2010 5:00:56 PM #

Dunn to White Sox, 4 yrs, $56 million.

River Otter
River Otter
12/2/2010 5:08:25 PM #

Wowsers.  Is it just me, or does it seem like everyone's getting overpaid this offseason?  At these prices I'm becoming less and less optimistic that the Reds will be able to lock up some of their young talent. Walt might be better off waiting until next season to pursue long-term deals.

The rumors of the offer to Arroyo (3 yrs/$35M) also make me nervous, especially if he's rejected it. That's a lot of coin for a team like the Reds to be locked into for a 34 year old pitcher.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
12/2/2010 5:11:18 PM #

I agree 100%, especially on Arroyo. Look, I love Bronson - I really, truly do. But our 2012 rotation can be Cueto, Volquez, Leake, Bailey, and Wood. Why give a guy who's at best a #2 starter $12 mil a year?

Mary
Mary
12/2/2010 6:12:03 PM #

because he has been the only pitcher of those named who has proven that he can pitch every turn all season long--and often is a stopper when things are starting to go south.  I think $12M per year for a #2 is not at all out of line with the going rate--maybe even a bit cheap

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
12/2/2010 6:18:28 PM #

I guess I don't disagree because, again, I really, REALLY love Bronson.

But with 6 starters on the roster, not including Chapman, I'm just not sure it makes sense to give that kind of cash to a veteran like that. The Reds will need all the pennies they can pinch to afford Votto, Bruce, Cueto, Stubbs, Leake, Wood, etc.

Obviously it appears Jocketty disagrees with me, and I'll defer to his judgment. But it doesn't seem to be the most prudent thing to do, in my opinion.

River Otter
River Otter
12/2/2010 10:45:27 PM #

I don't disagree that $12M per year is reasonable for a #2 starter.  I also wouldn't mind seeing Bronson extended through 2012.  The 3rd and 4th years make me nervous for a pitcher that turns 34 in February, has logged more than 200 innings in each of last 6 years, and has seen his strikeout rate decline the last couple of years.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
12/2/2010 6:08:55 PM #

  Bleacher Reports has the Reds taking a flyer on Webb, trading for marmol and signing Renteria. Where the he!! are they getting all this cash?
  On the other hand, if Webb is good to go, he makes Arroyo expendable, doesn't he?

Mary
Mary
12/2/2010 6:13:14 PM #

I read the article and took it to be totally a figment of their imagination in its entirety.  These were things they thought the Red should do, not that they would do

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/2/2010 9:07:07 PM #

Takahashi to the Halos, Bedard back to the Mariners.

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
12/2/2010 10:59:30 PM #

Reds offer arbitration to all elegibles (Votto, Bruce, Bray, Burton, Cueto, and Voltron) as per mlbtraderumors.com

Sounds good to me

River Otter
River Otter
12/2/2010 11:13:48 PM #

I agree.  Burton was the only one I wondered if they'd decline.

rpa
rpa
12/3/2010 12:09:56 AM #

Random thoughts...

Surprised they offered arb to Burton since they had no interest in using him this year.

Bleacherreport.com makes it essentially impossible to search for anything sports-related in google and get a sensible result.  The entire site should be banned from the internets.  If nothing else, they must have a bad-ass SEO guy working for them.  I can't imagine they could get such good results on Google otherwise, what with the total lack of relevance of pretty much anything on the site.

I wouldn't mind Jose Lopez if they don't bring Cairo back.  They need someone to back up Rolen, Lopez handles 3B OK.  Decent contact guy, but don't expect much offensive contribution other than a dozen homers or so.  Can back up 2B, too.  Not sure if he can still play SS.

As for the Cards shopping Ryan, there's got to be more of a personality conflict than just Carp going on there.  Putting Theriot in and taking Ryan out doesn't make that team that much better on offense, and it makes them much worse defensively.

Those ZIPS projections are garbage when it comes to younger players.  Alonso hitting 13 HRs in regular playing time?  The Yonder Alonso I saw last year couldn't get 13 hits in a major league season.  No idea what he's doing at the plate.  Reds should trade him while he's still a prospect instead of a suspect.  

rpa
rpa
12/3/2010 12:12:31 AM #

oh yeah, as for free agent prices... it's a thin crop this year for power hitters.  Dunn has value this year.  I think Jermaine Dye's contract expired in the wrong season.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/3/2010 12:32:24 AM #

My dad just sent me a text of a pic of my brothers insides from an appendicitis procedure. You gotta be kidding me.

All I have to say to parents out there, do not send such pictures to your kids, or anyone for that matter. Yuck.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
12/3/2010 12:34:36 AM #

One more non-tender that I'd be down with (and, for the record, my favorite of the day):

Fred Lewis

He's posted a career line of .272/.348/.418, and last year had 17 steals. He's not real young anymore (30), but he's fast, he's left handed, and he'd be an average to above average option to lead off.

He's a younger, slightly better (more pop in his bat) version of Scott Podsednik.

VottoLoco
VottoLoco
12/3/2010 1:51:17 AM #

I think I'd prefer Lastings Milledge (even though he's right-handed).  More upside since he's just 25, and he hit .268/.330/.402 14HR 24SB in his only full season to date.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
12/3/2010 7:13:31 AM #

...a slong as he doesn't bring the baggage?  He hasn't exactly been known as a great clubhouse guy.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
12/3/2010 7:15:45 AM #

Is Rent-eria out of the price range for utility guys? He was pretty good last year and could spell Rolen, Phillips, and Soft J. I've always liked his game.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
12/3/2010 9:25:38 AM #

Last year this time everyone was climbing all over WJ's back for doing nothing by this time. This year everyone is patient thank god.

I remember being in Cincy for Christmas and the Rolen contract thing went down. Everything else that happened was after that.

Not sure much of anything will occur but if it does it could be way later in Dec or in Jan so sit tight.

They have three 40 man slots open and they need one for Rhodes/vet reliever and one for Cairo/utility guy. I don't expect whoever they sign to be all that impactful. Maybe they will surprise me. I hope so.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
12/3/2010 9:35:22 AM #

This is from John Kiesewetter, the Cincinnati Enquirer TV-Radio reporter:
[i]All three radio guys will be at Fox Sports Ohio Redsfest, plus TV announcers Thom Brennaman (tonight only) and Chris Welsh.  But not Paul Keels. Is that significant? (Ohio State doesn’t play this weekend, so Keels doesn’t have a Buckeyes radio obligation.)  Says Kate Buddenhagen, FSO communications manager: ”We have not made any decisions on Reds talent for next year, and we have not made any asks of any of our broadcasters to be at Redsfest. Those that are slotted to be there were probably asked by the team to attend.”[/i]

We can only hope it's significant!

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
12/3/2010 9:40:51 AM #

What the hell does,"We have not made any asks of our broadcasters to be at Redsfest" mean ?
Maybe the word ,"requests" would be better.

genewv
genewv
12/3/2010 10:51:17 AM #

Soccerdad being cranky over grammar, I see!

Must be winter, off-season for the Reds, and he messed up his latest pasta?

I absolutely cannot believe anyone would give Dunn 56 million & for four years! Don't miss-understand, I like the guy, am happy for him, but just cannot believe any team thought his worth was that high, for four years!

I got to admit, WJ is my kind of GM. Very patient, slow to act, a little miserly.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
12/3/2010 12:38:06 PM #

Since 2004, only Albert Pujols' 294 home runs are more than Dunn's 282.

Here's the truth: if Dunn were a good defender and didn't strike out as much, you're looking at a Joey Votto/Miguel Cabrera/Josh Hamilton/Alex Rodriguez level player. He's that good at what he does.

So, $14 mil sounds about right. We're all talking about a #2/3 starter (Bronson) being worth $12 mil, right? And Pujols/A-Rod are in the $28-30 mil range. And if Hamilton or Votto sign for less than $16-18 mil, they're underpaid.

I see it. I'm certainly glad it's not the Reds paying it, but still. I see it.

btalbert25
btalbert25
12/3/2010 2:42:00 PM #

He hits a lot of homeruns, I'll give him that, but that's all I give him.  He's a liability on defense, and regardless of whether people think it's important or not, the guy never comes through in the clutch.  I know that's not necessarily something you can quantify in a stat but he's not a gamer like others are.  Done would have to hit about 30-50 points higher to be remotely considered in the same range as the guys you mentioned.  While 267 isn't a terrible batting average, it's the highest he's ever had.  I know there are other stats players are measured by these days, and he may rate high on some of them, but just to say if he didn't strike out as much and had a somewhat better glove he'd be ARod type talent, eh, I don't think so.

I'm not ripping him completely, he's a guy who can generate runs for a team that's for sure, but I see him as the prototypical power hitter.  A guy who can crush the ball that you put in the middle of the lineup.  Greg Vaughn was that guy, Rich Sexson was that guy too.  

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
12/3/2010 2:59:04 PM #

When Dunn was in Cincinnati, I spent the entire time defending him, so I'm not dredging it back up. But the clutch stuff is absolute garbage. The guy had as many walk-off/game winning homers and David Ortiz, and yet he's not a 'gamer' and Ortiz is revered.

Bottom line is Dunn's career OPS is .902 and for seven years, he's averaged 40 home runs. That compares well to Hamilton (.916, 32 HR when he's healthy), Cabrera (.939, 33 HR), Votto (.958, 30 HR) and A-Rod (.958, around 35 HR), especially considering every one of those guys are getting (or will get) well north of $14 mil a year.

Again, I'm glad the Reds aren't paying it - but to compare what Dunn has done for nearly a decade to flash in the pan guys like Greg Vaughn and Richie Sexson shows an unbelievable bias against a guy who was blamed for the ails of a franchise that never had any pitching when he was here.

River Otter
River Otter
12/3/2010 3:33:49 PM #

I always liked Dunn as well and thought he was underrated.  However, his poor defense separates him from some of the guys you mentioned. I'm happy for Dunn, but 4 yrs/$56M seems a bit much. Of course, I also think A-Rod is overpaid, but it never bothers me when the Yankees are footing the bill.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/3/2010 3:36:42 PM #

    "(I'm) disappointed for me," Nationals third baseman Ryan Zimmerman said. "I'm very happy for him. Obviously, if he's going to go there, he's going to get a four-year deal, and that's what he deserves. He doesn't get the amount of respect he deserves for what he does every year.

    "There's no question he wanted to be here. So it's unfortunate."

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
12/3/2010 3:42:44 PM #

Otter, not to argue, but that's exactly what I said above: 'if Dunn were a good defender and didn't strike out as much.' I agree wholeheartedly that he's a notch below.

Unfortunately, $14 mil IS fair, considering what these other guys are paid. Unfortunately for us because of Votto. If Dunn's worth $14 mil and Tulo $15.7 mil and Pujols $30 mil (what he's asking), then Votto's a $20 mil player, easy.

It'll be interesting to see what the Reds offer. You risk insulting the guy if you offer what you can reasonably afford ($12 mil a year?) and he knows it's way below what he can get elsewhere.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/3/2010 3:49:45 PM #

I don't get how Dunn was only worth 2 for 20 2 years ago, but is now worth 56 over 4. GMs can't really think GABP inflates homers that much, can they?

Moreover, his avg going up as a NAT had to do w/ the offense around him in all likelihood, weren't pitching around him as much.

River Otter
River Otter
12/3/2010 4:17:43 PM #

No need to apologize for disagreeing (or pointing out you made the same point earlier)! Nothing like a little Dunn discussion to light up the message board. Love Dunn, but that contract still seems too high to me.  The Chisox could regret it in a couple of years.

btalbert25
btalbert25
12/3/2010 5:16:54 PM #

Does Votto command 20 million off of 1 great season and 1 really good season?  Pujols makes 30 mil because he's been doing it for 10 years.  Maybe you do hold off on offering a long term deal.  I'd offer him 12-15 and if it's not enough, you probably are looking at 20+ mil in a couple of years anyway.  I can't see Votto being insulted by an offer.  He is smart enough to know the economics of the game and the position the Reds are in.

btalbert25
btalbert25
12/3/2010 3:41:03 PM #

I just dont' remember all these walkoff homeruns, and timely hits.  Pop ups to the outfield when they really needed the run.  I'm not one who said he only hit homeruns when the lead was huge or they were down a bunch.  I don't remember the David Ortiz type clutch homeruns all the time though.  I guess I could be wrong.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
12/3/2010 3:56:11 PM #

The David Ortiz comparison came from some research on Trent's part. The number, I think, was 7 game winning/walkoff homers and while that doesn't sound like much, it's the same number as Ortiz.

Looking at stats, Dunn's last year with the Reds was 2007. He hit 40 homers, and 25 of them were in 'Medium' or 'High' leverage situations (and remember, that 07 team was terrible. There weren't many 'high leverage' situations). Additionally, while his worst 'third' of the game as a whole was the 7th-9th innings, that year, he went 7-12 with 2 HR in extras, and his best 'third' was from the 4th to the 6th, when the game was also undoubtedly in question most of the time.

Dunn wasn't the most 'clutch' guy out there. But he wasn't a hack, either.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/3/2010 4:00:32 PM #

All you need to know about Dunn is his OBP.

W/ no one on in his career, it's .360.
W/ men on, it's .403
W/ RISP, it's .411.

That's a pretty good indicator other teams pitch around him w/ runners on. That's all I need to know. Teams fear him. If they truly believed he wasn't clutch, you'd see the OBP shooting down w/ runners on, b/c teams would just pitch to him, and since he's unclutch he wouldn't get on.

btalbert25
btalbert25
12/3/2010 5:31:07 PM #

Ortiz got a lot of notoreity for Playoff Clutch homeruns though.  He was the major reason the Sox came back from a 3-0 deficit to the Yankees.    While I will say 7 walk-offs is not as many as I thought Ortiz would have, I hardly think that says mr. Clutch either.  I would think 7 for one season would be significant but over a career I don't know.  I guess I don't have a frame of reference for others.  I'd be interested to see what Pujols, Manny, and others have done for their career in terms of Game Winning HR.  

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
12/3/2010 4:00:33 PM #

Strangely, his 2010 numbers are exactly the opposite - Dunn was worst from the 4-6th innings and best in the first three, with the last three in between (though it was his highest OBP).

Personally, I think all the 'clutch' stuff is largely a product of random chance, and that very few guys are actually that much better or worse, over a long period of time, in the late innings. Even Votto last year seemed 'clutch,' but the truth is, he hit ALL the time, not just late.

Dunn is an uneven hitter - he walks a lot and hits for a lot of power. Over long periods of games, it all evens out.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
12/3/2010 2:29:28 PM #

Not so much grammar, just making up words. Ask is  verb.Asks is not a noun. Stuff like that is why I left the corporate world. It's too full of people that say things to make other people think they are smart ,when they really sound like jackwagons.

Hebron Reds Fan
Hebron Reds Fan
12/3/2010 1:48:02 PM #

Happy Redsfest everyone!  I am picking up the kids from school in an hour and we are heading down.  

Mary
Mary
12/3/2010 2:03:48 PM #

we will expect as full report from you

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
12/3/2010 2:22:07 PM #

I'm picking up the little guy from school in an hour and then we are heading down to Redsfest too. I'm the chubby bald guy with the funny ,scrawny kid.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/3/2010 3:56:29 PM #

Ken Rosenthal Ken_Rosenthal
  
Arroyo done with #Reds - three years, $35 million. #MLB

I thought this was already done? Waiting on the yearly splits. My guess?

7, 14, 14

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
12/3/2010 4:03:22 PM #

I really, REALLY don't like this contract. But I like Arroyo, so I guess it's okay.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/3/2010 4:04:33 PM #

I like it if it's backloaded and frees up cash this year. If not, I dislike it greatly. No point to doing it if it's not backloaded.

I have to think it's backloaded, b/c I think Jocketty is a pretty darn good GM.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
12/3/2010 4:05:56 PM #

I mean, I just don't see extending Arroyo when we already have five young, good starters (not counting Chapman) locked up for as long as Arroyo's contract goes. It just doesn't seem all that wise, especially in light of re-signing Votto, Bruce, Cueto, etc.

River Otter
River Otter
12/3/2010 4:20:27 PM #

Well, at least it's not 4 yrs/$56M. Smile

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
12/3/2010 5:16:37 PM #

Ask STL fans how valuable a guy like Arroyo would have been on May 23rd, the day after Kyle Lohse went down and two days after Brad Penny went out with injury.  Arroyo takes the ball every fifth day and pitches a quality start 75% of the time.  There's alot of value in that.

I like this move.  Now Walt, get Votto and Bruce extended and a solid LH bat to platoon with Gomes, and we're in business for 2011

btalbert25
btalbert25
12/3/2010 5:21:24 PM #

It tells me 2 things, 1, they are going to trade one of the young arms, and 2, they are thinking it's possible 1 of those youngsters just may not pan out.  We fell in love with Leake for how he started the season, but teams figured him out at the end of the year and he got blasted pretty good.  He may adjust he may not.  At any rate, you can't replace Arroyo's consistency, and just the fact he's a quality guy to have around the clubhouse.  As we were talking about Dunn and comparing some of his numbers to the best in baseball, Arroyo's name is on a lot of lists with very impressive company.  Obviously, he's not the best pitcher in the league or even top 5, but he is very valuable to this team and rotation.

River Otter
River Otter
12/3/2010 4:25:09 PM #

Off topic, but I was sorry to hear about Ron Santo's passing. I actually enjoyed listening to him and Pat Hughes.  It's a shame that he was never elected to the HOF -- ironically, he'll probably get elected now that he's passed away.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
12/3/2010 5:10:48 PM #

Its a good contract. This guy could be the next Moyer in terms on longevity if he wanted to be.

The innings, the leadership, the quality starts, the clutch starts are all worth it to me. If two of Homer, EV, JC or Wood turn out to have #1 or #2 type seasons then you really have to love him. Besides, too many young guys on the staff to not have a quality vet to look to as a mentor. I love good Bronson and bad bronson is kinda fun too.

Mary
Mary
12/3/2010 5:17:44 PM #

I'm on your side on this one, Champ.  I'd not like to see Voltron be the senior citizen of the starters--I think they can all pick up a lot from Arroyo (and Mike Leake seems more than willing to listen to him, for one) and realize that adjustments to your pitching style may not get you to the major leagues, but they will keep you there.

Mary
Mary
12/3/2010 5:24:58 PM #

  johnfayman  John Fay
#Reds' coaches all got 2 year extensions.

Mary
Mary
12/3/2010 5:26:09 PM #

  johnfayman  John Fay
Dontrelle Willis: After the fight with St. Louis this was the place to be. No really, Dusty is my man. #reds
19 minutes ago

Hmmmm---I wonder how many others in the league hate the WLBs as much as we do?

btalbert25
btalbert25
12/3/2010 5:31:39 PM #

Ortiz got a lot of notoreity for Playoff Clutch homeruns though.  He was the major reason the Sox came back from a 3-0 deficit to the Yankees.    While I will say 7 walk-offs is not as many as I thought Ortiz would have, I hardly think that says mr. Clutch either.  I would think 7 for one season would be significant but over a career I don't know.  I guess I don't have a frame of reference for others.  I'd be interested to see what Pujols, Manny, and others have done for their career in terms of Game Winning HR.  

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/3/2010 5:41:00 PM #

I'll retain my argument and throw it back down here: All you need to know about Dunn is his OBP.

W/ no one on in his career, it's .360.
W/ men on, it's .403
W/ RISP, it's .411.

That's a pretty good indicator other teams pitch around him w/ runners on. That's all I need to know. Teams fear him. If they truly believed he wasn't clutch, you'd see the OBP shooting down w/ runners on, b/c teams would just pitch to him, and since he's unclutch he wouldn't get on.

Mary
Mary
12/3/2010 5:41:38 PM #

  johnfayman  John Fay
Arroyo confirms deal. "I enjoy it here. I didn't want to break the bank." #reds
3 minutes ago

The Reds were already on the hook for $11M for 2011 once they excercised the option on Arroyo, so I am happy to have him back at what I feel is a reasonable price

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
12/3/2010 5:47:00 PM #

Okay, I feel like I've been harsh on this Bronson thing. You don't have to sell me on Bronson - the guy is fantastic.

There are just a lot of contracts on the horizon more important than Bronson's. That's really all - if they can get Votto, Bruce, Cueto, etc. signed, I'm a happy man. I'd just hate to go into the next few seasons with Votto year to year and eventually lose him because of money, when we're paying $12 mil a year to Bronson, a guy who, potentially, we may not need in 2013.

I guess my thing is that if there's anything we have a lot of, it's young pitching, and if there's anything we don't have a lot of, it's money. So, an extension like this just makes me nervous. I don't hate it, but it makes me nervous.

Mary
Mary
12/3/2010 6:16:59 PM #

Does this make you feel any better?  Just in from John Fay

The original option was actually re-worked and this is a new three-year contract. The dollar amount I had is the same. However, there will be an amount of deferred money. The contract does not include no-trade protection but Arroyo was assured enough that there were no plans to move him that he still signed the deal. He can become a 10-5 player with automatic no-trade rights in 2012.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/3/2010 6:20:20 PM #

I think I beat you. Although you used a tricky replay to make your post show up higher. Gotta watch out for them tricky squirrels!

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
12/3/2010 6:08:05 PM #

Holy. Crap.

http://www.saysuncle.com/2010/12/01/so-awesome/

Mary
Mary
12/3/2010 6:19:34 PM #

got any more pork projects planned?  I seem to remember that you made a bacon explosion a couple of years ago

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/3/2010 6:20:54 PM #

I'm just wondering how he found it? I really hope he didn't google "Bacon Baby Jesus".

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/3/2010 6:15:47 PM #

Sheldon says he was initially wrong. IT IS as I had hoped a reworked 3 year deal, and not a 2 year extension (I was worried that Walt had wasted his negotiating leverage here).

There will be deferred money, but Sheldon doesn't say how much yet. Will be interesting, b/c this is the difference between whatever scraps we can get for 1-2 million to play LF or maybe 5-8 million.

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
12/3/2010 7:15:55 PM #

FYI, Johnny Bench, Tony Perez, and Joe Morgan are going to be on the MLB Network at 8:00 pm this evening for an interview with Bob Costas as part of his Studio 42 series.  

Mary
Mary
12/3/2010 7:50:39 PM #

  FollowThePadres  Follow The Padres
by mlbtraderumors
Hearing Aaron Harang needs only to pass physical for deal with his hometown team (#Padres) to be done

Hope things work out for Harang--SD is a perfect fit for him (and in another division)

rpa
rpa
12/3/2010 9:50:45 PM #

I think that's a good park for him.  Hopefully he can get healthy and have a couple more good years.  The Reds don't play the Padres that often, but I hope he makes the team and gets a start in Cincy.  I'll be there cheering when he takes the mound, and cheering when he gives up a bunch of 350' homers in the Great American Small Park.

Statmom
Statmom
12/3/2010 8:33:01 PM #


Here is a link to the story on the Padres website.  I hope it works.

sandiego.padres.mlb.com/.../article.jsp

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
12/3/2010 9:05:58 PM #

  I'm diggin' the Bronson deal. I think he would have done a little better on the open market. When the rest of your rotation is this young and goes up and down like a yo yo, it's even more imperative to have a guy like Arroyo. Plus, we may get more JTM commercials. Smile

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
12/3/2010 9:13:04 PM #

Also, on Dunn, how do you discount that OBP, OPS, and all those dingers? He may end up DHing in Chicago so the defense may not matter. I think we have been a little rough on his defensive skills, on this site. It's not like he's CP23 or something. He's got a decent throwing arm (maybe better than Gomes) and generally catches everything he gets to. H didn't look horrible at 1st base. Maybe he'll grow roots there and improve with age like  really good Cab Sav. Hey, don't laugh, it could happen (in my best Judy Tanuta voice).

rpa
rpa
12/3/2010 9:46:24 PM #

Corporate Jackwagon checking in.  I like that, SoccerDad.  I think it's at worst a new handle.  At best, a band name.

Pray tell, how do you leave the Corporate World?  God knows about 70 hours into my work week I'd really like out, but this pesky mortgage keeps getting in the way.

As for Dunn, I've already defended him until I was blue in the face and it did no good.  Yes, he's a lousy outfielder.  Yes, he strikes out a lot... which does not matter AT ALL.  Seriously.  Go look up a correlation of team runs scored and team strikeouts and you'll see what I mean.  

Never mind, I looked up one for you.  6 years old but still relevant - www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php

It's oddly enough a positive correlation... more strikeouts = more runs?  I don't think that's cause and effect, maybe not even correlation.  It just doesn't mean that much.  All that matters for scoring runs as a team is OBP and SLG.  Strikeouts and pop-ups are unproductive outs, to be sure... but nothing matters more than scoring runs.  And the only way to score is to get on base or hit it over the fence.  All the sac bunts and grounders to the right side in the world will not get you a run if nobody is on base to begin with.

projectprospect.com/.../barrel-awareness-correlating-team-hitting-stats-with-runs

All that being said, I think the Dunn contract is a product of two things

1) end of the steroid era (or, a surprising conspiracy that all but about a dozen guys in each league have forgotten how to hit homers)
2) this year's free agent class

This isn't like 2002, when every team could count on finding a Jose Bautista every other season.. suddenly, sluggers aren't so common.  So, let's say you're a GM who thinks you need a power threat and knows that SLG & OBP are the best indicators for how many runs your team is likely to score.  Who can you sign this offseason that can make an impact like Dunn?

Werth?  Beltre?  Victor Martinez?  Huff?  Manny Ramirez?  Magglio Ordonez?  Vladimir Guerrero?  Pat Burrell?  Carlos Pena?  Berkman?  Matsui?  Nick Johnson?

Seriously, compared to those guys, Dunn has the most power and the best OBP.  None of those other guys look like defensive stars to me, aside from Beltre & Werth.  If you think Werth won't get a contract similar to Dunn's, and that Dunn doesn't put Beltre to shame as a hitter, I can't help you.  That's why Dunn got the money he got - he's something of a rare commodity right now, and he's extremely consistent about doing his job.

Enough about Adam Dunn.  One thing I'm sure about is that he plays either 1B or DH.  The Reds already have one and don't need the other.


As for Arroyo's contract... I wish it were a year shorter, but I think the money is fair for the amount of years that it is.  I think the Reds might have gotten a very slight hometown discount, but not much.  That's OK.  I think Arroyo and four youngsters isn't a bad way to build a rotation.

I'm now officially rooting for Dontrelle Willis to make the 25-man out of spring training.

rpa
rpa
12/3/2010 9:48:29 PM #

I should clarify - Dunn is likely to have a better OBP/SLG than Guerrero and Ramirez for the next 4 years... obviously from a historical perspective Vlad and ManRam are much better hitters than Dunn... but I think they're both about finished.  The Sox didn't want another rental like ManRam.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
12/4/2010 4:33:07 PM #

Here's how you do it. You say ,"I quit." and go work for a smaller family owned business who believes  balance in your life is important. The money was about the same and I didn't have to sit through endless meetings that accomplished nothing. I also didn't have listen to jackwagons use 50 words when 10 would suffice.

Amy
Amy
12/3/2010 9:58:32 PM #

More than slightly punchy after waiting for Santa forEVER at the elementary school tonight. Stuck in traffic? Aren't the reindeer supposed to FLY?? Anyway, Corporate Jackwagon is seriously cracking me up. And all the tweets from Redsfest make me want to be there!!! Someone posted a pic of Mike Leake, who got a haircut and now looks to be about the age of my 8th grader. (OMG! I have an 8th grader?? What?)

OH, and I've wasted entirely too much time laughing at this site all day. It's a random generator, so if it's something horrifically inappropriate when you click on it, I didn't intend it specifically for you. Or maybe I did. Who knows?

http://www.bluntcard.com/randomizer.html

genewv
genewv
12/3/2010 10:00:47 PM #

Wow! Go to sleep for a afternoon and the whole sight goes crazy!

Soccer, "ask" is a verb?!

Again, really happy for Dunn, but i don't pull that trigger as a GM. I hope he proves to be worth twice that much, as i do truly like the guy.

Sorry to hear about Santo. I really liked the guy. Even liked to hear him groan over poor Cub play, bad calls against his team perceived, or otherwise. Kind of a more prejudiced Joe Nuxhall. I got no problem with that, if you let it be known that is how you are. Kind of like Jack Fleming at WVU for years.

I like the Bronson deal. No way to know how many of our youngsters are going to take the next step. Bronson is already there. We can trade a young arm on potential, if necessary, to get something of value if we don't think that particular youngster is going to make it, or put them in the pen. Hard to find 200 innings, 35 consecutive starts, 23-25 of them quality starts. No problem here.

Mary,

I think Harang landed in the best place he could have landed. I am sure all of us on here wish him only the best, like you.

rpa
rpa
12/3/2010 11:01:22 PM #

Finally done with work so I think I'm going to sit in my garage, drink a beer and listen to the Descendents.  Because I can.

Have to get some sleep, though.  Homer (not that one, the other one) has a vet appointment in the morning.  He loves the annual checkup and vaccinations.

rpa
rpa
12/3/2010 11:06:40 PM #

Update... my wife tells me tonight's top story on the news is a live shot from the salt pile.  Because we're going to get 3 inches of snow tomorrow.  I think I'm going to go to Redsfest because I'm sure it will be abandoned as the population of Cincinnati cowers in their houses, hoarding bread, milk and eggs.

Seriously, why do people go to the store and buy "staples" before three inches of snow hits.  Do you really need to make french toast every time it snows?

Yeah, I have a 4WD vehicle.  Living on the shore of Lake Ontario for 3 years will cause you to buy a Subaru.  But, seriously, I'll take my wife's compact out in that snow tomorrow on the vet trip, just to prove a point.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/3/2010 11:56:28 PM #

Jocketty needs to get involved in this Gonzo to the Padres swap:

Padres Get: Alonso, Red Sox prospect or three
Reds Get: Jacoby Ellsbury
Red Sox Get: Gonzales, Francisco

You could throw in more players if you wish, but Alonso is better than any 1B Boston could offer. In all likelihood better, younger, and more ready than any SD prospect. Might have to throw in a Reds pitcher in there somewhere, but it couldn't hurt to try to get involved.

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
12/4/2010 9:57:22 AM #

Does this trade mean Bud doesn't have to expend the playoffs to guarantee NYY and BoSox both make it next year?

Maybe this trade forces Cashman to trade Gardner and free up LF for Crawford.  I can only hope.

Mary
Mary
12/4/2010 10:25:01 AM #

RT @Ken_Rosenthal Source: Jeter deal will be 3 yrs,$15M-$17M. No guar 4th yr, no vesting option. 4th yr called "creative, hybrid" solution.

Wasn't this pretty close to the Yankees' first offer of $15M for 3 years?  Perhaps Mr. Jeter realized that no one else is going to give a $$$$$$$$$$$ four+ year contract to an aging Yankee shortstop.  

Mary
Mary
12/4/2010 10:29:37 AM #

From Mark Sheldon:

"I just wanted the opportunity to stay on this ball club for the next few years," Arroyo said. "We've been running uphill for the last four years and finally got to the top of the mountain. We saw the finish line at least and made the playoffs. We'll hopefully more good seasons and make a run at it.

"I enjoy everything about the place. I enjoy the places I go, the restaurants I eat at and my teammates, the ballpark and the fans. I'd sign a five-year extension if they let me but I'm getting old so they're only giving me three."



Sounds like Bronson likes wherever he is (had similar thought about Boston),which shows another facet of an adaptive personality

RedFaced
RedFaced
12/4/2010 11:29:58 AM #

On the Bronson deal: I like it very much.  As many have pointed out he is very reliable.  Put him down for 200IP, 15 wins a year, he's been very durable, he wants the ball when it's an important game and he's good with the young guys.  There is no-one else on the staff that the Reds are guaranteed to get even one of those items.  

As for the money... well he was going to get $13 million this year from the Reds already ($11MM option and $2MM bonus for IP) so really the Reds extend him for 2 more years at $22MM or $11MM a year.  I'm sure the Reds will re-arrange the money to be less in 2011 and more in the next two when Cordero's contract is gone and perhaps even BP's in 2013.   No doubt Arroyo could have gotten more money next year had he not taken the extension.  I'd say upwards of $14MM-$15MM a year even.  Ted Lily just got $33MM for 3 years.  I'll take Arroyo over Lily every day even if he is left-handed.  

I personally would like to know how it breaks down money wise to see how much the Reds deferred from the 2011 salary he was in line to get.  Just wondering how much money the team may have moved around for a potential trade for a LFer.  

Mary
Mary
12/4/2010 11:38:18 AM #

I read somewhere (mind is blanking the source out presently) that there was deferred money out to 2020.  Maybe I'm dreaming, but I think I read that

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/4/2010 11:44:44 AM #

It must be true b/c it's on Cot's, although they still don't have money per year:

Bronson Arroyo rhp
3 years/$35M (2011-13)

    * 3 years/$35M (2011-13)
          o signed extension with Cincinnati 12/4/10, replacing option year in previous deal
          o 11Embarassed , 12Embarassed , 13Embarassed
          o deal includes deferred money through 2021

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/4/2010 11:45:50 AM #

Haha I didn't put those little smiley faces in there, must be something screwy w/ the Cot's formatting.

Mary
Mary
12/4/2010 1:30:05 PM #

I'm not losing it!  (yet)

River Otter
River Otter
12/4/2010 1:39:26 PM #

I can definitely live with 3 years/$35M for Bronson, especially if part of it's deferred. If I had my dithers I would have extended him only through 2012, but with the deferred money it's not a crippling contract even if he fails to stay healthy.

Great news for Harang. Hopefully he passes his physical and has a bounce back year. I always thought San Diego would be a good spot for him.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/4/2010 1:40:51 PM #

I hope this was some kind of misquote by Sheldon: Votto on Tulo: "I can't imagine seeing myself 10 years from now saying I want to be here."

Mary
Mary
12/4/2010 1:47:34 PM #

I think you're taking that a bit out of context.  I think he is saying that at his age he can't envision himself ten years from now.

River Otter
River Otter
12/4/2010 1:54:17 PM #

I agree with Mary.  However, he did make it clear that the Reds aren't getting a hometown discount.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/4/2010 1:58:48 PM #

Well, looking at it in that light, not nearly as bad. Still though, just kind've jumped out b/c of the wording.  Maybe "I don't know where I want to be 10 years from now", rather than I can't imagine saying I want to be here 10 years from now.

But off that topic, I am laughing my arse off at Cardinals fans celebrating this trade of Gonzo, b/c now the Yankees and Red Sox won't be in the market for Pujols.

This imo opinion is equivalent to going back to 1844 and saying the US isn't interested in Texas b/c they already made the Louisiana Purchase.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
12/4/2010 2:03:41 PM #

probably an accurate analogy.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
12/4/2010 2:08:55 PM #

  My daughter just called on her way home from Redsfest.  Apparently, my grandson almost tripped Johnny Gomes (accidently) when he was leaving their VIP area. I love mt grandson and all, but getting one of the guys hurt at Redsfest might be cause for his first stern talk with grandpa.  Smile  Mike Leake said the kid doesn't want to be a pitcher 'cause it's too boring. I hope he means for little ones. I don't think he gets bored out there.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
12/4/2010 2:25:39 PM #

I couldn't be less concerned about Votto. Really - it'll work itself out, and we know Castellini wants him here. That's enough for me.

I HATE the Gonzalez trade. Three prospects from a weak Boston system? Why didn't someone, ANYONE - Toronto? Baltimore? Texas? KC? Washington? The Cubs? - top that offer? Every one of those teams has more to offer.

I swear, sometimes I think Selig is behind the scenes of this crap. There are a dozen other teams who could use a first baseman and could offer more. It's one thing with free agents, but when it comes to trades, there's no reason NY and Boston should consistently get players.

stlredsfan
stlredsfan
12/4/2010 2:59:36 PM #

I thought for sure Ellsbury would have been in the deal.  Maybe Gonzalez's shoulder surgery had something to do with it?  

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/4/2010 3:06:11 PM #

cincinnati.247sports.com/.../Bearcat-mascot-detained-7448

Haha, what a moron. Second time in a week someone is told to stop acting like a tool at a Cincy sporting event, both times he kept it up, first guy was ejected, this guy is arrested.

It's really not that hard is it? If someone tells you to knock off your jackassery and they have the power to arrest you/kick you out, you should probably knock off your jackassery. Right?

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
12/4/2010 3:11:41 PM #

I'm in favor of more uses of the term 'jackassery.'

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/4/2010 3:35:08 PM #

Looking at it that way, maybe I should be more supportive then of those that commit acts of jackassery. That way I could get to say jackassery more.

Or ya know I could just extend its use to other contexts, such as the next time Dusty Baker pinch hits Juan Francisco agaisnt a LHP, I could deem that to be an act of jackassery.

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
12/4/2010 3:43:31 PM #

HA!

Mary
Mary
12/4/2010 3:47:45 PM #

This thread is getting pretty long--can we talk anyone into writing a new one about the upcoming winter meetings and what we would like to see/think we will see/ hope we don't see? or whatever topic you would like to write a starter on (that was simply a suggested starter idea)

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
12/4/2010 3:53:29 PM #

Well, I feel better now. San Diego didn't get ripped off, because the guys making the trade used to work for Boston.

That makes EVERYTHING better. No chance of anything fishy there, no sir. It's got to all be on the up and up now.

sportsillustrated.cnn.com/.../index.html?eref=sihp

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
12/4/2010 4:11:57 PM #

Speaking of jackassery, I just read from a Reds fan proposing the Reds trade Yonder Alonso and Mike Leake to the White Sox for Carlos Quentin. Carlos. Quentin.

I really can't take this seriously. But if I did, the Reds would be giving up a young, potential stud starter (who's actually shown flashes at the big league level) and our best hitting prospect for a hitter who,

a.) Is a career .251 hitter;
b.) Has a history of injuries, having never played more than 133 games in a season; and
c.) Was almost twice as bad as Gomes in left field last year according to UZR/150 (-32.7 to .19.1).

Uh... that can't be a serious thought. Can't be.

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
12/4/2010 4:41:04 PM #

That is quite an unbalanced trade proposal.  Perhaps it would be more tolerable if the White Sox included Kip Wells as a throw-in player?

haha, sorry I could not resist.

I'll write a new starter in a bid to put off my fusion design project.  Someone else can post it though, I do not like being unable to comment on my own thread starter.  

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
12/4/2010 4:54:23 PM #

Friday night Redsfest Report

I couldn't find Redscoop.
Maybe I'm getting cranky in my old age, but it really frosts my flakes when people are walking in a crowded aisle and they stop in the middle of it to stop and stare at some random thing and there is a chain reaction collision behind them and the aisle gets jammed up. Move off to the side so people can get by you. You're not the only person in the world.
Brandon Phillips is awesome! He may be the most fan friendly player in Cincinnati sports history along with Sean Casey. He autographed The Little Guy's Reds Heads hat. The Little Guy told him how he imitated his batting stance in a game and hit a double and did the hand clap point to the sky thing. Phillips made an ask of him Smile to show him. He got a big laugh.
A few minutes later at the pop fly booth, The Little Guy was getting ready to catch one and BP walked out on the field and called him off of a fly ball and caught it. Great Stuff !
I had to make an airport run this morning. Good Lord ,people! The roads are wet. It's not like your driving the Ice Road. Pick up the pace !
Maybe these good nutrition habits I am developing are making me crabby.

RedFaced
RedFaced
12/4/2010 5:32:45 PM #

Good stuff there Soccerdad.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
12/4/2010 7:24:48 PM #

You know what else frosts my flakes? Excessive use of the word"and" in a sentence. I really need an edit button so I can avoid jackassery in the wording of my posts .  

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/4/2010 5:13:10 PM #

Jon Morosi jonmorosi
  
#STLCards announce one year deal for Berkman. Call him "outfielder/first baseman" in release. OF likely! #MLB #STL

I don't want to dilute my other word, so I'll just go ahead and call this one shitasticular.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/4/2010 5:16:04 PM #

On the flip side, Berkman hasn't played the OF since 2007, and was horrible out there back then. Maybe the Cardinals are just prepping their fans for a Pujols trade>??

Mary
Mary
12/4/2010 5:41:48 PM #


SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
by ctrent
berkman got $8 mil from #cardinals. he'll play left field, hear theyre moving holliday to right field


anyone else feel that the Cards overpaid?  (or paid for a younger Berkman?)

stlredsfan
stlredsfan
12/4/2010 6:25:14 PM #

That move smacks of "we have to do something to appease our fan base".  The Cardinals are disjointed/dysfunctional, whatever you want to call it.  Berkman's best days are in his rear view mirror and I don't know why they think he can handle leftfield.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/4/2010 6:27:09 PM #

I dunno why they think he's a better investment than O-Dog. It'll be like Junior's last year here. Painful to watch, but he's on your team so you kind've have to play him.

stlredsfan
stlredsfan
12/4/2010 6:39:04 PM #

Maybe the Cardinals can petition for Berkman to play left on horseback, and use a net  instead of a glove.

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
12/4/2010 6:42:33 PM #

yea, one of those lacrosse goalie sticks might do the trick

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/4/2010 5:43:15 PM #

8 MILLION TO BERKMAN?!?!?!?!!?!?!?

Here's how the negotiations went down:
Athletics: 4 million, we're trying to get better, you can play 1B and DH.
Orioles: 5 million, we know we're rebuilding, but we'd love to have you. Plus we'll flip you to a contender at the deadline.
Cardinals: W/ us, you have the chance to win a championship. You'll get to play the field. You'll have the security of knowing we won't trade you. Our offer is 3 million.

Berkman, stone cold stared down Cardinals GM Mozeliak, and said "match my best offer, I want 5 million."
Mozeliak responeded, fine, 8 million.
Berkman: "Deal."

Mary
Mary
12/4/2010 5:44:57 PM #

beatcha fair and square this time

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
12/4/2010 5:59:03 PM #

who do I send this thing to for posting?  My memory is terrible

Mary
Mary
12/4/2010 6:03:47 PM #

starters@redsoctober.com    

...and thanks for stepping up

Mary
Mary
12/4/2010 6:04:52 PM #

Perhaps Ashland, Amy or RF should try putting the starter up--when I did it for you last time, you were unable to post under you own name.  I'd like to see if the same thing happens when someone else puts it up

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
12/4/2010 6:17:23 PM #

strange, the email has come back twice as undeliverable to the address above

starters@redsoctober.com

RedFaced
RedFaced
12/4/2010 6:21:32 PM #

try it again Timmy, I've been doing some changes with the spam filter on our end this weekend.

Mary
Mary
12/4/2010 6:32:12 PM #

I got a copy of it--and RF,can you post his starter to see if you have the problem that my posting of Timmy's last starter caused him? (couldn't post on that thread only under his own name)

Mary
Mary
12/4/2010 6:25:10 PM #

Where did my posts saying I beat Grizz go to?  It still shows in the recent posts, but is missing from the thread itself.  

Grizz--have you figured out how to game this system?

My posts that are missing (one before Grizz's post about the $8M that Berkman will get and one after):

337)
Mary wrote: SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman by ctrent berkman got $8 ... [More]

# OFFSEASON THREAD: NL MVP Vote (337)
Mary wrote: beatcha fair and square this time [More]

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
12/4/2010 6:26:16 PM #

Showing up still on my end.

Mary
Mary
12/4/2010 6:27:14 PM #

If I click on the thread title from the list of recent posts, my posts show up. They do not if I read the thread normally

Mary
Mary
12/4/2010 6:29:53 PM #

and now my posts are back--is someone messing with me?

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
12/4/2010 7:52:16 PM #

I'm late to the Berkman to the Cards party, but let it be known: the Reds won't need to make any moves to improve if Mozeliak just keeps shooting himself in the foot.

Berkman hasn't been good enough to play the field in years and is coming off a .248-14 HR season. Any ABs he takes from Rasmus and Jay should help the Reds tremendously.

With the Brendan Ryan/Ryan Theriot stuff and now this, I'm beginning to wonder if Mozeliak suffered some sort of brain injury.

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
12/4/2010 8:38:31 PM #

did somebody get the new thread starter?

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
12/4/2010 8:53:08 PM #

Got it. Give me a sec.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
12/4/2010 9:02:11 PM #

New thread is up. Head over there!

guttering hills district
guttering hills district
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