The Future is Bright

by VottoLoco 6. January 2011 16:59

With all of the talk about the old guys (Larkin, Concepcion, Renteria…all shortstops—interesting) this week, I wanted to shine some light on some good news that also came out.  We’ve known for a while that the Reds have an excellent farm system.  They have been bringing up knock-out talent for the past few years (see Votto, J; Bruce, J; Stubbs, D; Cueto, J; etc), and they just keep them coming.

 

Baseball America released their annual report of the Reds’ top 10 prospects this week, and there were some interesting changes from last year .  I’ve provided brief summaries and commentary on each of them (in order of appearance) in the hopes that we can get some positive discussion going about the future.

 

Aroldis Chapman, LHP

Age at start of 2011 Season: 23

MiLB Experience: 95.2 IP

MLB Experience: 13.1

Blocked by: Crowded rotation, lack of LHP bullpen arms

Prognosis: Chapman was the most electrifying signing of the 2009-2010 offseason.  His 105.1 MPH fastball broke Zumaya’s record for the fastest pitch ever recorded.  He projected as a starter when he first came to the organization.  Why would the Reds squander an arm like this on middle relief?  Necessity is one thing, but I’m not sure that that is the current situation.  Sure, the best LHP bullpen arms going into Spring Training are Bray and D-Train, but can’t they find ANYBODY else on the FA market?  True, Chapman could close if Cordero is shipped off (along with some cash) to a team in desperate need of a closer at some point early in the season, but that’s just an if at this point.  I truly hope they at least let him compete for a rotation spot in Spring Training just to see if he is ready.  If they don’t, I think it’s a colossal waste of talent.

 

Billy Hamilton, SS/2B

Age at start of 2011 Season: 20

MiLB Experience: 2009 Gulf Coast League – 180 PA; 2010 Billings – 316 PAs

MLB Experience: N/A

Blocked by: Brandon Phillips

Prognosis: I’m excited about this guy.  In Billings, he put together a slash line of .318/.383/.456 with 48 SBs, 61 runs scored, 13 2Bs, and 10 3Bs.  In other words, he gets on base, and he’s fast.  The kid has a slick glove, to boot.  With all the Uggla/Phillips comparisons and the worry about Phillips becoming too rich for the Reds’ pocket book, I’m not concerned.  I think Hamilton will come up just in time to replace Phillips and provide a long-term leadoff solution.

 

 

Devin Mesoraco, C

Age at start of 2011 Season: 22

MiLB Experience: 1297 PA across all levels

MLB Experience: N/A

Blocked by: Rymon Hernanigan

Prognosis: Mesoraco forms the senior half of the Reds’ studly minor league catching tandem.  Although he appeared to be a bit of a bust through 2009, he really came alive in 2010, posting a .302/.377/.587 slash line with 26 HR, 75 RBI, and 71 R in 451 PA across three levels.  He also threw out 41% of base stealers.  I can picture a trade of one of the major league backstops (probably Dog) sometime early in the season if Mesoraco shows he can consistently hit at the AAA level.

 

 

Yonder Alonso, 1B

Age at start of 2011 Season: 23

MiLB Experience: 931 PA across all levels

MLB Experience: 29 PA

Blocked by: Mr. MVP

Prognosis: The Reds have a lot of interesting problems with their young players.  Most of them revolve around having too many players.  I like Yonder, and I like what he can do with a bat.  Unfortunately, he doesn’t play very good defense at 1B, and he’s painfully slow in the outfield.  I think he probably projects as a Billy Butler-esque player.  He will smack the ball all over, but he’s best suited to a 1B/DH role in the long-term.  Unfortunately, that doesn’t make him a particularly valuable trade chip, and it doesn’t give him much of a role on the Reds.  If Votto gets injured (Nuxy forbid) this season, I could see Yonder getting some playing time on the team, but I think it’s more likely he gets traded to a team in need of a left-handed bat.

 

 

Yorman Rodriguez, OF

Age at start of 2011 Season: 18

MiLB Experience: 472 PA in Rookie League

MLB Experience: N/A

Blocked by: Bruce/Stubbs

Prognosis: It’s hard to project the long-term value of a player so young, but Yorman appears to have some great talent.  Last season, in Billings, Y-Rod hit .339/.361/.456 with 39 RBI and 12 SB in 184 PA.  Keep in mind that this kid was 17 at the time.  That means that he wasn’t even alive (or conceived, for that matter) when the Reds swept the A’s in 1990.  He was just 7 when Al Leiter pitched that fateful game in ’99.  I’m looking forward to see what he does this year against some (possibly) more advanced pitching.

 

 

Yasmani Grandal, C

Age at start of 2011 Season: 22

MiLB Experience: 33 PA in Rookie League

MLB Experience: N/A

Blocked by: Hernanigan and Mesoraco

Prognosis: According to his contract, Grandal has to be on the active roster by 2013.  Given the talent that he appears to have, I don’t have a problem with this.  Although it seems like a waste of talent, I think it would be incredible to have a tandem of Grandal/Mesoraco emerge in the next couple years.  Grandal hit .401 with 15 HR, 60 RBI, and a .527 OBP in 2010 in college ball.  .527 OBP.  I hope his plate discipline continues as he progresses through the system.  Like Y-Rod, this will be an exciting kid to watch develop this year.

 

 

Juan Francisco, 3B/OF

Age at start of 2011 Season: 23

MiLB Experience: 2,221 PA across 4 years at all levels

MLB Experience: 84 PA in 09-10

Blocked by: Rolen?

Prognosis: The question mark after Rolen’s name was just me being nice.  Look, Francisco waves a big stick, and he demonstrated that clearly in the Dominican Winter League by putting up great numbers (.322/.380/.559 8 HR, 30 RBI, 29 R in just 163 PA) and winning the MVP.  Unfortunately, the thing blocking Francisco from making the transition to 3B or LF is his glove.  Here are a couple lines to look at:

 

2791 PA: .292/.354/.455 76 HR 391 RBI .902 Fld%

2221 PA: .282/.313/.494 96 HR 366 RBI .914 Fld%

 

Who do you think they are?  E5E5 on top, 1Francisco on the bottom.  Essentially, he’s a harder-hitting, left-handed Encarnacion.  I’d love to see him pick up his defense, but I’m not sure he’ll ever get there.

 

 

Zack Cozart, SS

Age at start of 2011 Season: 25

MiLB Experience: 1816 PA across 3 levels

MLB Experience: N/A

Blocked by: Janish/Renteria?

Prognosis: Cozart looks pretty good—essentially a harder-hitting Janish.  He has about the same range and defensive ability as Janish, but he hits more home runs.  I wouldn’t have minded seeing him play backup to Janish this year, but I guess Walt wanted more veteran experience for middle infield support.  I’m not sure what to think about Renteria, and this paragraph is supposed to be about Cozart, but the Renteria signing was just reported, so…that’s that.

 

 

Todd Frazier, 3B/OF

Age at start of 2011 Season: 25

MiLB Experience: 1858 PA across all levels

MLB Experience: N/A

Blocked by: Rolen

Prognosis: Last year’s top-rated Reds prospect has dropped to the #9 position this year according to Baseball America.  This could be due to the signing of some stellar players like Chapman and Grandal, or the 2010 talent displays from emerging talents like Y-Rod, Mesoraco, and Hamilton, but it could also have something to do with Frazier’s plate discipline.  In 2009, he put together .292/.351/.481 with 16 HR, 77 RBI, 48 BB and 79 K across 2 levels.  In 2010, he only managed to hit .258/.333/.448 with 17 HR, 66 RBI, 45 BB, and 127 K.  Going from 1.65 BB/K to 2.82 tends to be a problem.  Maybe he turns things around in 2011 and rediscovers his patience, but if he doesn’t, he’s going to have problems getting on base at the MLB level. 

 

 

Kyle Lotzkar, RHP

Age at start of 2011 Season: 21

MiLB Experience: 111 IP in Rookie and A ball

MLB Experience: N/A

Blocked by: N/A

Prognosis: He hasn’t played above A-ball, so this will be another rough projection of what this kid will do.  However, he put together some great numbers in 2010.  In 44.1 IP (10 starts), he went 3-1 with a 2.03 ERA, 0.95 WHIP, 30:7 K:BB ratio, and 12.18 K/9.  Baseball America gives him the honors of best curveball and best control in the Reds system, so let’s see how he uses and develops those tools through other levels this season.  It’s good to see the Reds system so stocked with pitching talent at all levels for once.

Tags:

Off Season Ramblings

Comments (508) -

Mary
Mary
1/6/2011 5:05:34 PM #

We're experiencing a bit of technical problems right now and as a result have two copies of this thread up.  Please comment on this version of it, as there seems to be something amiss with the other one.

Mary
Mary
1/6/2011 5:18:24 PM #

1/6/2011 4:46:40 PM #

Redwakeup

Son?

Yeah, Dad? Where are you?

I'm right here, son. Behind the lump of coal. sigh...I don't know how I'm going to get this thing out of the house.

Oh, there you are dad. What's up?

Those Stupid Reds made some bonehead moves this offseason! They picked up Jeremy Hermidia and Edgar Renteria. Let's bask in the glory of their limited payroll....

Dad? We didn't do much better did we? I mean, we got a washed up ex-Cub with the range of a World War 1 tank, and an ex-Astro worn out first baseman playing left field.

Don't you bad mouth my teammates boy! Our team is much better than those Commie Reds!!

Don't punish me dad!

Now you take it like a man!

Don't get the paddle dad....Wait... What's that?

That's your pick axe, son. Get to work chippin' this big piece of coal that big "Redleg" lovin' Santa gave your daddy! Now you hit this for an hour then go to bed without your supper.

I could work on this coal for days and not take more than a chunk out of it.....

Think of it as a labor of love. It will strengthen your shoulders, back and forearms. It may someday make you the hall of fame baseball player that your daddy is.

You mean you'd put my picture with your pictures and statues in the hallway going to my bedroom.

Yes, son, you could be in our hall of fame one day. Now get chipping.

<dink> <dink> <dink> <dink>.....<dink>  

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
1/6/2011 5:24:30 PM #

  Very nicely done, sir. Another in a long line of fabulous thread starters around here. If the mess media is looking for inspiration,well...look no further.
  It has been a virtual eternity since Reds fans could look into their farm system and see so much potential spread across so many levels. We should all be thankful to whomever we thank, that this is the case.I'm a bit surprised to see Hamilton and Lotzkar rated so highly because they have only begun the long progression up the ranks. I'll take it, though. If the "experts" got it right, we're grazing in tall grass. If not, the top 3 are still Chapman, Mesaroca, and Alonso. Pretty good stuff, right there.
   I'm loving the Renteria deal. Cozart needs to get ABs on a regular basis and Soft-J needs an opportunity to "wash out" or "play in". I like Edgar in that role much more than Kairo or O-Cab. He's turned into quite the elder statesman in his latter years (or so they write).    

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
1/6/2011 5:49:27 PM #

... and they didn't even mention Valaika, Dorn, Sappelt, or the stable of pretty good pitching in the upper minors.

UtahBrian
UtahBrian
1/6/2011 6:08:07 PM #

Great job! Where DO you find the time?

I am mildly concerned about the lack of pitching in this group. I know the Reds have some great young arms on the major league roster, but pitching is something that needs constant refreshing.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/6/2011 6:27:38 PM #

MissEnquirer Miss Enquirer
RT @Enrique_Rojas1: Edgar Renteria to ESPNdeportes.com: "I agreed with #Reds. "We can reach the World Series".

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/6/2011 6:49:21 PM #

nice summation of the BA10.

lotzkar had TJ in 09 and still seems to have mechanics issues but it's nice to see him on the list.

frazier at 25 is ready to break out. I'd love to see him steal LFfromm gomes out of ST. He's on the 40 now so he can get the call.

stlredsfan
stlredsfan
1/6/2011 7:25:11 PM #

I'm lukewarm to the Renteria signing.  Baker and Jocketty can say all they want about Janish being the starter, but obviously they don't have complete confidence in him.  Renteria has had a significant big league career and is a "character" player which Jocketty is so fond of, but he has never been a backup and has played all but a few innings off shortstop.  When Janish is consistently in the lineup 5-6 times a week then I'll believe he is the starter.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/6/2011 7:41:41 PM #

Would you have complete confidence in Janish?

stlredsfan
stlredsfan
1/6/2011 8:15:47 PM #

If the core offensive guys hit like they are capable then hiding Janish in the 8 spot won't be a problem.  I've always liked Renteria and am willing to give any player a chance.  Like Champ said, I'm afraid Baker will have Janish on a short leash and will end up running Renteria out there til he collapses.

rpa
rpa
1/6/2011 7:34:54 PM #

Good summary of some of the top prospects and suspects in the organization.

I have this nightmare where we are looking at Renteria having 500 plate appearances by the end of August and putting up some kind of .250/.300/.325 nightmare that makes us miss the cardboard cutout that was Orlando Cabrera.  Dusty still hates Janish, apparently, and Walt likes those veterany infielders.  I don't think it was a bad idea to sign him to back up Janish and let Cozart develop in the minors... it's kind of the same thing as with Gomes.  I like having him on the team, but if he gets a whole lot more than 200 ABs it's probably bad news.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/6/2011 8:01:47 PM #

I think they will go into spring with PJ out front getting the starts but if his spring is poor Dusty will take every opportunity to get his veteran guy in there.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/6/2011 8:03:37 PM #

BTW, I thought smart people went to Stanford....Luck is an idiot. The labor thing had to play into it?

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/6/2011 8:12:58 PM #

Maybe since there is CBA uncertainty he can still get himself insured for his senior year based on Bradford's contract, which was for like 60 million or something.

If the new CBA puts out a rookie scale that caps his guaranteed money at 20 million, it almost makes a shred of sense to stay in college another year. That way if he has a career ending injury he might ultimately get more cash?

Any sportswriter who commends his commitment to education should be put in a sack and beaten w/ a bat. If any of these top pick guys were committed to education they could finish their work in the offseason. Something is playing into his decision, and it has nothing to do w/ a degree in structural design. Moreover, if anyone is counseling him that finishing his last year of school and getting a degree is important, they apparently never went to college, let alone as a possible #1 draft pick.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/6/2011 8:15:09 PM #

I mean college is fun and awesome and all and I'm not advocating for the typical American to not strive for a college education....but I mean come on. No educational reason for him to go back.

River Otter
River Otter
1/6/2011 10:55:31 PM #

I can't fault the kid for coming back for one more year.  Perhaps money isn't that important to him -- he's still going to be a multi-millionaire.  Besides, he may not be too excited about the prospect of having to play for the Panthers.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/6/2011 11:31:51 PM #

I can...you can't improve on #1 pick??? Where do you go from here? I don't know the details of the changes of the current CBA so maybe there is a reason I don't get.

It's not noble or honorable or old school or the right thing to do....Its stupid!

DonkeyDizzle
DonkeyDizzle
1/6/2011 9:59:10 PM #

I can't remember my password. Boo.

DonkeyDizzle
DonkeyDizzle
1/6/2011 9:59:56 PM #

Check that, couldn't remember there was a space in my name. Silly.

River Otter
River Otter
1/6/2011 10:55:45 PM #

He's alive!

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/6/2011 11:32:51 PM #

Renteria got his juices flowin'

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/6/2011 11:33:44 PM #

If we could post some pics up in this place then Donk could post his new mini van

Mary
Mary
1/7/2011 10:32:42 AM #

that would be awesome

River Otter
River Otter
1/6/2011 10:44:59 PM #

Excellent work, VottoLoco.  It's nice to see the farm system in such great shape.  The fact that Sappelt isn't a top 10 prospect speaks volumes about its depth.

Although the Reds don't seem to have a lot of elite starting pitching prospects after Chapman, there are some guys with potential.  We also have to keep in mind that Leake, Wood, Maloney, and Lecure were all prospects last year that got called up last year.  I'd bet there are some starting pitching prospects that emerge next year.  

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/6/2011 11:29:21 PM #

MLB did top 10 RF in BB right now. No sign of Jay Bruce except in the who we left out segment.

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
1/7/2011 1:33:29 AM #

that list will surely include Jay Bruce in the top 6 if it was completed at the 2011 all start break.  Jay's going to be that good this year

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/7/2011 10:02:15 AM #

i felt that way last year after the way he ended 2009.

It was interesting how Edmonds seemed to impact his play. I'd like to see half-shirt invited to camp as a special instructor if he decides to retire.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/7/2011 10:00:20 AM #

Heyward, Stanton and Bruce are the future of RF for sure.  Hart and Werth are still pretty good. Sux for Bruce these are all NL guys. Even worse is if Carlos Gonzalez plays more RF

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/7/2011 10:50:50 AM #

Fangraphs would say he's the 4th most valuable RF in baseball.

I'd imagine the top ten from MLB Network didn't include at least one other guy that rated out in the top 4 (Jose Bautista, Andre Torres, Shin Soo Choo).

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/7/2011 11:04:41 AM #

Bautista was 4 and Choo was 2

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/7/2011 11:07:13 AM #

10. Justin Upton ARI
9. Nick Markakis BAL (Yeah Nick)
8. Mike Stanton FLA
7. Jason Heyward ATL
6. Nelson Cruz TEX
5. Andre Ethier LAD
4. Jose Bautista TOR
3. Jayson Werth WAS
2. Shin Soo Choo CLE
1. Ichiro Suzuki SEA

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/7/2011 11:13:46 AM #

Mike Stanton? Jason Heyward? Jayson Werth? Nick Markakis?

I'll take Bruce over all of them.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/7/2011 11:23:22 AM #

I cut and pasted the list form a Baltimore site hence the yeah Nick.

Stanton and Heyward are both going to be very good. I would take Bruce over Upton, Markasis, Cruz, ans Bautista. I don't believe in Bautista but 54 HR had to put him on the list.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/7/2011 11:27:28 AM #

While I'm not surprised Choo is on the list, I'm very surprised he got all the way up to second, and guys like Heyward and Upton were at the bottom.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/7/2011 10:07:34 AM #

AAT...if you didn't read this already it should brighten your day some.

espn.go.com/.../will-barry-larkin-save-the-hall-in-2012

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/7/2011 10:17:47 AM #

For the most part I really love reading Neyer's stuff. This on in particular could sway your opinion if you disagree and really fortify it if you agree.

espn.go.com/.../change-will-roll-into-the-hall-someday

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/7/2011 11:18:19 AM #

The Hall's a mess. And the biggest reason has little to do with steroids. In the 1960s, when there were 16 teams, they elected one or two guys a year. Now in the 2010s, when there are 30 teams, they elect one or two guys a year.

More total players, in my mind, equals more hall worthy players. It's simply the law of averages. But if they keep going the way they're going and they insist on electing just a couple people a year, we've got big, BIG problems with the legitimacy of the hall.

Steroids aside, coming on the ballot in 14-15 are seven inarguable Hall of Famers: Maddux, Thomas, Glavine, Pedro, Johnson, Smoltz, and Mussina. And they'll be JOINING a ballot of Bonds, Sosa, Biggio, Piazza, etc.

If the Hall insists on only two guys a year making it, it's gonna be a sham.  

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
1/7/2011 12:52:58 PM #

Talked to Yoda's owner at the dog park the other day. He thinks Bruce is going to have a monster year this year. He also thinks Edmonds had a lot to do with his good 2nd half.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
1/7/2011 12:54:43 PM #

Oooops, I locked myself in reply jail. This was meant to say I don't think Mussina is a HOF'er.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/7/2011 1:04:08 PM #

That's because you're crazy Smile

Dude had 270 wins, top 5 of the Cy voting 7 times, 7 Gold Gloves, and had a career ERA+ of 123. Oh yeah, and he did all that in the steroid era with small parks, body armor, and literally every rule going for the pitcher.

He gets to 300 wins easy if he didn't hang it up when he was on top - 20-9, 3.37 his last year. The guy was a top five pitcher of his generation. He's just the Barry Larkin of the pitching world, doing most of his damage away from the limelight.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
1/7/2011 2:34:42 PM #

A HOF'er in my book is someone when you face him, you say,"Oh crap, we are screwed." Mussina doesn't do that to me. Neither does Blyleven or Jack Morris. Randy Johnson does, Maddox does,Glavine does.
You say "crazy" like that's a bad thing. It's gotten me through 53 years on earth.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/7/2011 11:33:03 AM #

Cubs in talks to trade their #1, 4, and 10 prospects and another dude for a guy who's never had an era under 3.69. But Garza has pitched in the AL East the last 3 years, so obviously  his true era is more like 0.00004.

Gawd, the teams in our division are retarded. Reds have a bunch of up and coming high ceiling talent, rather than make a push last year when the division was truly up for grabs, the Brewers and Cubs mortgage the future for chances in the next 2 years. Why? You're going to be going up against the best years of Votto's careers, the final pre-arb years of Cueto and Volquez, another year older of Bailey, the final year of BP's deal, the final year Scott Rolen is likely to be worth anything, the rise of Bruce, etc.

It's a horrible time for others in the division to try to make a significant push via trade. If these were FA moves, good for them. But trading away the farm? Don't get it.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/7/2011 11:42:53 AM #

bring it on Cubbies. Garza can be very good but not worth that fame killer.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/7/2011 11:43:38 AM #

Done deal.....maybe next the Pirates will trade the farm for Joe Blanton?

On a more realistic note, I'd bet these moves force Mozeliak into something. He seems like a poor GM, I'd imagine he's feeling pressed to react, especially w/ Albert's impending FA/DOOM/2012.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/7/2011 12:16:28 PM #

that would be interesting...do you think they add offense to counter all the pitching in the central or do they get even more P?

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/7/2011 11:48:01 AM #

SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
word is, renteria is getting $2 mil guaranteed plus up to $1 mil in perf bonuses from #reds. great veteran presence (obvs)


And this is INTERESTING: www.fangraphs.com/.../ Comparing Garza to Harang, the biggest difference between the two is HR/Fly ball. Could moving to a division that includes Wrigley, GABP, Miller Park, and that LF porch in Houston turn Garza into the 2008-2010 version of Aaron Harang? That would make my day.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
1/7/2011 12:53:26 PM #

Talked to Yoda's owner at the dog park the other day. He thinks Bruce is going to have a monster year this year. He also thinks Edmonds had a lot to do with his good 2nd half.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/7/2011 1:11:47 PM #

that's why I thought he'd be a great guy to bring to ST. Ellis Burks was a nice player but what does he bring. Edmonds is not far removed, he can relate to Bruce, Heisey, Stubbs and Votto and he was on this team last year. Hope Walt is talking with him.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
1/7/2011 2:38:50 PM #

I hope so too.

RedFaced
RedFaced
1/7/2011 2:14:48 PM #

I may have overlooked someone posting this but just in case thought I'd mention it:

The Reds signed Burton avoiding arbitration, details not released yet as far as I know.  That leaves 4 arb eligibles remaining - Votto, Cueto, Volquez, Bray.  

I also so John Fay post this on his blog:

“I feel happy for the opportunity to keep playing shortstop full time. That was the main reason to accept the offer from the Reds,” Renteria told ESPNdeportes.com.

How's everyone feel about the Renteria signing with bit of info?  

River Otter
River Otter
1/7/2011 2:29:31 PM #

Yeah, that quote doesn't seem to comport with what the Reds have been saying publicly.  I just hope Janish gets a fair chance to start.

Off topic ... Joe Posnanski had an excellent, touching, non-sports post today that's well-worth a read:  joeposnanski.blogspot.com/.../katie-prefect.html

CedarRapidsReds
CedarRapidsReds
1/7/2011 3:29:07 PM #

Nice blog! Well worth the read. I hope old shortstops are of use in the muggle world.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/7/2011 2:36:33 PM #

that irks me...dude is a liability in the field. Is he better than OC? I guess a little. In out ball park maybe more so but his range is significantly worse than his prime

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
1/7/2011 2:36:46 PM #

Could that mean not switching positions and playing third or second or does that mean being the everyday SS?

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/7/2011 2:44:53 PM #

sounds like a lot of SS to me. I'm sure he was offered other deals to play 2B utility much like the deals OC got last year.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/7/2011 3:05:17 PM #

redsminorleagues.com/.../

Reds farm system ranked 2nd behind Royals as far as position players go. 22nd as far as pitchers go, 7th overall.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/7/2011 3:08:22 PM #

The Cubs before today had the 10th ranked system (likely will fall into the 20s), the Pirates 18th, the Cardinals 23rd, the Brewers 29th, and the Astros 30th.

In other words, w/ our young pitching at the MLB level combined w/ a variety of young positional talent, the goal should be to extend the young pitching and let the young guys grow into the starting lineup at positions such as LF, 2B, 3B, SS, and catcher, rather than making big splashes.

CedarRapidsReds
CedarRapidsReds
1/7/2011 3:13:03 PM #

Nice starter. Good to see the Reds have a bright future. Im for the Renteria signing. Cant beat veteran presence.

Just 40 days till Pitchers and Catchers report!!


Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/7/2011 3:27:22 PM #

www.redreporter.com/.../reds-2011-national-tv-schedule-sorry-if-posted-previously

17 nationally televised Reds games next year, w/ MLB network schedule yet to come.

CedarRapidsReds
CedarRapidsReds
1/7/2011 3:29:20 PM #

Nice blog! Well worth the read. I hope old shortstops are of use in the muggle world.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/7/2011 6:24:51 PM #

Dear Walt,

This weekend, when you receive a plastic bag containing rye bread, swiss cheese, and a steaming hunk of a turd, know that Paul Janish is displeased with both Renteria's comments, and your choice of how to spend the budget this off-season. And I'm with Paul.

Sincerely,

The Ashland ATeam

DocProc
DocProc
1/7/2011 6:38:00 PM #

Dear Walt:

What Ashland said.

DocProc

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/7/2011 6:42:58 PM #

If I understand the budget right, the Reds have roughly $2 mil left to spend. Pods or Lewis ain't coming for $2 mil.

I'm the biggest Gomes fan there is around here, and as you've seen with the Larkin stuff, I'm pretty insanely loyal. But how someone can objectively look and say they'd rather have an every day lineup with Renteria and Gomes instead of Podsednik and Janish is absolutely beyond me.

Oh well. I'm sure that 2010 WS home run will give the Reds a boost next July.

Redwakeup
Redwakeup
1/7/2011 8:22:20 PM #

I would still like to see Heisey get a chance in Left field with Gomes, and then make Gomes obsolete.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
1/7/2011 8:26:30 PM #

I don't think you guys need to be too upset about Renteria taking time from Janish. With Rolen playing about 135 games and BP getting some ocassional rest, Edgar will be busy elsewhere for 50 or so games. Who know's? Dusty likes to keep a legitmate SS on the bench, remember? Just hope it ain't Soft-J all the time. And that 2 mil might bring NixBH back if Walt asks real nice.

VottoLoco1
VottoLoco1
1/7/2011 9:04:42 PM #

Thanks for the compliments, everyone.

I think I like the Renteria signing.  I don't think he'll be the defensive and offensive liability that people think he is.  At least he's not Ryan Theriot, right?  Plus, I think he won't be viewed as a lead-off option, and he'll out-perform O-Cab's 2010 numbers.  Add to that the possibility that Janish is still going to be the starting SS, and this veteran could be a good influence on young infielders like Cozart and Frazier.  

I'm also not sure Castellini won't spring for someone like Lewis or Pods.  What's another mil between friends?

**Not accepting VottoLoco, eh?  What did I ever do to you, website?  Dang 1s and 0s copping an attitude.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/7/2011 9:12:39 PM #

I totally agree that this does not keep them from getting Lewis or Pods.

They signed Hermida first, and then upped the offer to Renteria, at least that's how I see it. Hermida is insurance for if Lewis or Pods don't sign. Walt Jocketty is a shrewd man, and I once again have to thank St. Louis for passing him on to us.

DonkeyDizzle
DonkeyDizzle
1/7/2011 10:16:12 PM #

BTW, I do NOT own a minivan and still never will and still only have one child and not currently in the market for another one. And when I get a new car this spring and it's NOT a minivan, I will post plenty o' pics! Go Reds! And by the way, LOOOVE the Renteria signing, Rolen and Renteria on the left, spreading wisdom and love to all. Tell Soft J to hit better and quit whining. They're both gonna get their chance early in the year, win it fair and square baby.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
1/8/2011 1:35:41 PM #

The Honda Odyssey is nice. Just sayin'. We got our first minivan,a Dodge Caravan, after our first kid. Eventually traded up to the Astro with a conversion pkg. for long soccer trips. Never say never my braying friend!

rpa
rpa
1/8/2011 12:21:40 AM #

I am hoping for a translation error being the reason that there are reports that Renteria thinks he is the everyday shortstop.

Otherwise, they would have been just as well off getting Theriot.

rpa
rpa
1/8/2011 12:32:52 AM #

I will say that with what the Cubs just did to get Garza, I was starting to feel better about the Reds chances in 2013-2015...  pretty much every team that matters in the divison has emptied the cupboard.

After reading the link to Doug Gray's site that Grizz put up, it looks like I was right in thinking that way.

The NLC is filled with a lot of weak minor league systems now (as is highlighted in the link Grizz made above).  Only the Cubs really have the cash to overcome it long-term.  The Cardinals essentially need to get lucky with another Pujols to keep this up, because they really aren't going to generate THAT much more money than the Reds or Brewers or Astros.  So the Brewers and Astros have very weak systems, and the Pirates are going to suck until they get new ownership that isn't just interested in cashing revenue-sharing checks, even if they do improve their minor league system.

Key for the Reds medium-term success is going to be getting enough butts in the seats at the ballpark so that they can keep a payroll in-line with every team in the division not named the Cubs, and that ought to be enough to make them competitive on an annual basis for the next 5 years or so.

Jocketty drives me insane with some of his moves, but those are mostly the ones on the fringes of the major league roster.  If the Reds draw well, they can afford to overspend a bit on a $1-$3 million player.  Overall I still think he's doing an outstanding job.  Inheriting some of those really good drafts makes it easy for him to look smart, anyway.

VottoLoco1
VottoLoco1
1/8/2011 9:07:16 AM #

Maybe Mozeliak's plan is to trade Pujols mid-season for another team's entire farm system.

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
1/8/2011 1:04:31 AM #

I. like many on here, am concerned about Renteria on the roster because I have a feeling that Janish will be back in Dusty's doghouse and Edgar will be stinking it up in the field and at the plate for much of 2011.  I wonder what the heck Janish has to do to convince the organization that he's worth a shot at starting?

I hope the Reds go out and draft a high upside top-of-the-rotation pitcher this year.  The system is really lacking those types of players.  The only thing close is probably Corcino, who was in the Pioneer league last year.

Billy Hamilton is something else.  Hopefully he starts out at Dayton and steals the show there.  Just the chance to watch him would worth the cost on a minor league ticket.

rpa
rpa
1/8/2011 5:08:21 PM #

Just going to Dayton to see a game is worth the cost of a ticket.  I love that park & the whole thing is great.

It's time to start drafting pitchers again, I think.  They'll need another wave of guys once Leake/Wood/Chapman/Cueto/Volquez/Bailey all hit FA and Arb.  If half of them pan out, it will be all the Reds can do to afford three of them.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
1/8/2011 11:41:25 AM #

  Does anyone else think Walt Jocketty might be stocking up on marginal and fill-in type players to protect his positions for a possible trade? Could he be looking to improve by making a multi-player deal which could include a current starter or 2? I think there may be room to improve in the pen and of course, in LF. Could it be that he is accumulating talent in case a muti step plan is derailed once started? One thing is for sure. He is proving to have quite a poker face.

rpa
rpa
1/8/2011 5:03:50 PM #

He could be... but I shudder to think what it might be if these guys are supposed to actually play.  I hope he's just filling out the bench/AAA shuttle guys.

genewv
genewv
1/8/2011 3:21:53 PM #

Votto, good thread.Appreciated much.

I posted on the last thread, toward the end, I think, my biggest worry was Renteria preventing Janish from betting a legit shot at the starting position. Now, his tweets bring me more worry--not that i would be surprised, given what we all know already with Dusty and veterans.

For those that think Renteria will get sufficient playing time to suit him between 3rd, SS, and 2nd, we should not forget Cairo needs plenty of playing time to keep sharp as well, and has already shown he can do it quite well.

I am all for Renteria, both as a back-up SS, veteran presence, etc., but do not want him to get the SS position by default early in the season because Janish might get off to a slow start.

The ONLY way we are ever going to know how good Janish can be, how inefficient at the plate he might be, is to let him play a extended period of time. Guy has shown some real promise when given the opportunity, but he must be given time. Then, if he does not make it, then we will know for sure. Platooning him, then giving occasional starts will not get it done. the best glove in the league deserves a shot.

rpa
rpa
1/8/2011 5:04:28 PM #

I've come to the conclusion is that the only way we will know what Janish can do is when he gets traded to another team.  Cozart is on the way, so the window is closing.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/8/2011 6:16:44 PM #

werd

genewv
genewv
1/8/2011 6:46:16 PM #

RPA,

Agreed. All the more reason to check and see if we have more than we think we have.

If we do, great. If we don't, we just move on, or let him play back-up forever. Guy has done everything asked of him to get better--weight lifting, back-up with no back lash, been a total team guy. Give him his shot. has to be now, as you correctly state.

rpa
rpa
1/9/2011 1:20:31 AM #

Well... what do you think will be easier to trade when the Reds decide Cozart is ready?  A guy who has been sitting on the bench or a guy who has at least proven he has some value as a slightly below average hitter with a great glove?

I honestly think that Janish has potential to be Jack Wilson with a slightly worse bat and a better glove.  That's worth something when some team has an injury and wants to trade for a plug-in solution.  Instead, I think they're going to wind up dealing him for a PTBNL somewhere down the road.  And that's a shame.

rpa
rpa
1/9/2011 1:24:31 AM #

I guess what I'm thinking here is that there are three ways a player can have value to an organization:

1) on the field
2) in the clubhouse
3) trade value

So, the Reds aren't bothering to figure out #1, I don't know enough about him to figure out #2, and #3 is being damaged by not playing him.

Really, what it boils down to is that if a team hasn't given up for the season, they aren't going to play a guy just to increase his trade value.  Since we hope the Reds are never in that position in 2011, it comes down to whether or not the guy makes the team better by playing.  If Janish can hit .240 or .250 and get on base about .320 or so, I am convinced he's a better shortstop than Cabrera or Renteria.  There's only one way to find out, and having him play twice a month isn't it.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/9/2011 10:17:24 AM #

I think that is a great way to look at it. I'm not sure if its Dusty and/or management that lacks confidence in PJ.

I find it odd when Dusty refers to PJ he always seems to call him Janish. In his most recent comments about his role with Renteria he is quoted using Edgar for ER and again Janish when refering to Paul. I think that first season he honestly didn't even know his name.

The guy has been around the clubhouse 3 seasons....doesn't he have a nickname yet? Is he uncomfortable saying Paul? Who else in the roster does he refer to by last name only after 3 seasons?

The best place for the DA to put his next witness in the witness protection program is back up SS in Cincy behind whatever vet Dusty wants to bring in.

rpa
rpa
1/9/2011 12:24:24 PM #

When I first saw Dusty speak at Redsfest when he was introduced as new manager, he couldn't come up with Homer Bailey's name at all (Marty had to help him), he kept calling E5E5 "Juan Encarnacion", and generally didn't seem to know who anyone on the team was other than Griffey.

So it seems quite possible he still can't remember Paul Janish's name.

rpa
rpa
1/9/2011 9:18:38 AM #

Out of nowhere... remember that Wheaties commercial last year with Pujols, and there was some discussion about if it was Cordero pitching to him?

Confirmation that it was, if there was ever any doubt:

news.cincinnati.com/.../Clooney-to-film-in-OTR-Lunken


So there you have it.  Guy made a Wheaties commercial where Pujols smacks him down, and it was filmed at Lunken.  I suppose if there were more truth in advertising, he probably would have been in a commercial where he walks Pujols with the bases loaded to give up the winning run.  But I guess that wouldn't have been as exciting for the Wheaties commercial.

Then again, is there anything exciting about Wheaties?   I think that Wheaties, as part of a balanced breakfast, has a high on-base percentage.

rpa
rpa
1/9/2011 10:59:18 AM #

I also want to point out that I was looking at old baseball uniforms earlier today, and found a mention of Ted Kluszewski and his cut-off sleeves.

I was looking at his stats again (3 plus seasons of 40+ HR without more than 40 Ks in any of them always amazes me) and I have discovered some unsettling things:

1) Through his age 27 season, he had 74 HR in 2723 PAs - that's a rate of 1 HR every 36 plate appearances.  In his age 27 season, he hit 16 HR in 135 games while batting .320.  He was basically the Sean Casey of his day.  Then, he busts out for 171 HR in his next 2548 PAs (one every 15 PAs, more than double his old rate) at an age where most guys are declining a bit.

2) The guy's arms... just look at them!  So big he had to cut the sleeves off of his uniforms, that is how outside the norm he was.  A regular shirt just wouldn't fit the guy.

3) Career cut short by injury.

4) In 1954, the Soviets won a big international weightlifting competition - right around the time a guy with a very eastern-european sounding name starts bashing homers...


There is only one reasonable conclusion - Big Klu was on 'roids.

Redwakeup
Redwakeup
1/9/2011 12:46:17 PM #

RPA
I know that you are just joking about the 'roids bit, but that is what I cannot stand about the American public. I have been a weight lifter for about 26 of my 46 years. I have seen steroid users in every gym that I have worked out in. Steroids do have a tremendous effect on muscle growth, but it is not the only way to get big and strong.

I have never touched steroids. My strength and size comes from long hours in the gym and favorable genetics. Both of my grandfathers were short stocky men, and that is what I became. I have been, most of my life, a gym rat. I have, at times, left the gym for periods like now, due to work or injury. But even as recent as 5 years ago, I had a 400lb bench press and a 650lb sqat, all naturally. At 5'8" tall, I was 248lbs and had a 36" waist, 54" chest and 20" biceps. It can be done naturally. I have done it naturally.

I'm sure that there are many reasons why athletes choose to use steroids. I would think that many are due to coming back from injury. The biggest is recovery. This is what I have seen out of the users that I have known.

My normal routine was working out 5-7 days per week, 1-2 hours per night. Of those days, I would have one heavy chest and shoulders day, one heavy back day, and one heavy legs day. That was all that I could ever do, ever. My other days were spent doing lighter weight, and getting more reps in. The steroid users never had to take the heavy time off. They were rejuvenated. Their body repaired itself faster than mine could. When I was younger, my body could handle it well. As I got older and added more injuries upon old injuries, it's gotten harder to get back in the gym.

That is why now, I am 295lb, with a big belly, a soft chest, and only 17" arms trying to make again, 2011 my year to get back in shape.

I do not believe that every big player in MLB has used steroids. I do not even believe that every 32-36 year old player that has had a resurgence in their career is using steroids. I do know what kind of hard work it takes to get back into that type of shape again. Regular, weekly, massages can take away a lot of the pain of the required gym work, but you can reclaim some of that youth back. Five years ago, my trainer got me back to a 4.8 sec forty yard dash. Yet now I'm back to a 48 sec forty.

I wish that I had never quit. It's going to be a hard year.

Not every big man uses steroids. (BTW, I know that was your point on Kluszewski.)

rpa
rpa
1/9/2011 2:16:44 PM #

Yep, that was exactly my point on Kluszewski.  I was never a lifter, but I knew several guys who were (and I knew a couple of guys that used some substances of dubious legality).

Honestly, they all got the similar results in the end.  The guys taking the drugs got them faster and found them easier to maintain.  And probably some pimples on their back.  I dunno.  All I know is that it seemed like those guys could hit the gym ever day, and the ones not taking anything had to take a couple of days off every week.

I think I never understood the steroid thing, really, until I a doctor gave me a cortisone shot once when my knee was hurting due to a bike wreck and the giant motrin or whatever they gave me were not quite getting the job done.  Holy crap, I could not believe it.  A few days later I spent a whole day knocking down dead trees and chopping wood... even at that relatively young age, that kind of work would leave me sore after a 10 hour day of it.  And I was sore the next morning, all except for my left knee.  It was like it hadn't done any work at all.

I can't imagine being a professional athlete or training heavily and having that temptation to be able to hit the gym every day without needing as much recovery time.


I'm just looking for a drug to make me shorter so I can fly in a coach seat more comfortably.  Any ideas?

Redwakeup
Redwakeup
1/9/2011 3:27:30 PM #

I never had to worry about the height issue in an airplane at 5' 8", but if you ever hear of a surgery that I will temporarily be able to reduce the width of my shoulders for a flight, I would appreciate it as will my fellow travellers.

rpa
rpa
1/9/2011 3:57:27 PM #

I could stand an overall reduction in dimensions, actually.

rpa
rpa
1/9/2011 12:27:54 PM #

I couldn't resist taking a look at who will be on the 2012 Hall of Fame ballot.

I am starting a campaign for Tony Womack.  If nothing else, you can probably win a bet by correctly naming him as an Opening Day leadoff hitter for the Reds in the Harang meltdown against the Cubs a few years ago.

River Otter
River Otter
1/9/2011 3:55:19 PM #

This comment from Dusty, as reported by Fay, makes me feel a little better that Soft J will get a legit chance to start:

“I don’t know. We don’t have a quarterback controversy at short. Everybody plays on my team.  They’re both going to play. Janish is younger. Edgar is more experienced. Janish deserves a chance to be my shortstop.”

Baker likes having a pure shortstop as a backup.

rpa
rpa
1/9/2011 3:56:51 PM #

Baker likes having a pure shortstop as a batboy.

River Otter
River Otter
1/9/2011 4:16:46 PM #

Hah. Only if he's not a vet.

I'm banking on the sentence:  "Janish deserves a chance to be my shortshop."  Of course, that could be as fictional as implying everyone plays significant time for Dusty ("Everybody plays on my team.")

Amy
Amy
1/9/2011 4:34:26 PM #

I think we'd better keep the "Free Paul Janish" picture handy.

rpa
rpa
1/9/2011 7:07:15 PM #

I have it, and the milk carton, around here someplace.  Too bad I can't post them here *cough*.

rpa
rpa
1/9/2011 7:07:24 PM #

Smile

Amy
Amy
1/9/2011 8:18:28 PM #

Hmm. Right, I should probably call tech support about that. After all, spring training is just around the corner. (SPRING TRAINING IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER! WOOOO!!!!)

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
1/9/2011 5:32:24 PM #

hehehe-hahaha-hehehe

genewv
genewv
1/9/2011 9:04:57 PM #

I see you folks have been discussing Janish and his situation since i last visited.

Some very good points made by all--per usual.

I get that the undertone of all is that we REALLY don't trust Dusty to give him a fair shot before inserting Renteria as the regular.

I think we are right.

The mention of always calling him by his last name while always having a nick-name, pet name for everyone else just might be more telling than one might think.

WQhen i was in high school, my FB coach called everyone on the team by their first name, or had a nickname for them--except me. He always called me by my last name, with a certain amount of disgust in his tone. Never forgot it. He had real issues with me because of my family, was not able, or did not want, to hide his anger. Only reason I played was because I was the star RB, MLB. However, when he got the chance to short change me come post season honors, scholarship time, he got his revenge.

To this day, I never call anyone by their last name only when speaking to them in person.

Janish? Who knows?

rpa
rpa
1/9/2011 10:45:47 PM #

I only call people by their last names when it's kind of like a nickname, when they prefer it.

Otherwise, I find it to be pretty disrespectful.  I'll make an exception for people who spend a long time in the service.  Some of them seem to do that for a while after they get out.

genewv
genewv
1/9/2011 9:09:09 PM #

I might also add there have been several players that have not made it as a regular in MLB until late in their 20's. Folks that immediately come to mid is Pee Wee Reese, George Foster. There are, of course, multiple others. Maybe, just maybe, Janish is one of those? Maybe not? Lets find out the first few months of this season, not the first few games.

rpa
rpa
1/9/2011 10:59:45 PM #

Off topic, but I do love my Seahawks.  My crappy EIGHT-9 Seahawks, who if they win another playoff game can get to .500.

Saw these linked on Deadspin today.  If you had a NES in the late 80s/early 90s, you will get both of these.  Otherwise, maybe not.

BEEF MOE (Okoye stylee):  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieMlSNXMR2M

SUPER MARSHAWN - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueR1TFFEt3g


I realize the ride will probably end next weekend.  But that run was almost enough to erase this from my memory:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-eiK1mlKWY

...but not quite.  I mean, I was a kid when that happened, and it just crushed me.  I still refer to that play as the run that killed the decent Seahawks teams of the 80s and sent them into a downward spiral.  Good night to the rock and roll era, indeed.

But now, "Bald Crappy Favre" has the best game of his career, Marshawn Lynch does something great, and the Saints are at home.  That's enough to keep me going until pitchers & catchers report.

rpa
rpa
1/9/2011 11:08:07 PM #

To this day, I reserve a hatred for the Raiders that is unmatched by anything... even growing up in Buckeye Country, did I hate Michigan like I hate the Raiders?   No. As a Reds fan, can I get this level of hate up for the Cards?  Nope.  The Cubs?  Almost... but no.

That Monday Night Ass-Kicking in '87 has stuck with me my entire adult life.  I hate the Raiders.

And Bo Jackson deserved that damned hip injury.  Because he was a Raider.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/9/2011 11:44:25 PM #

As a Saints fan, yesterday was EXCRUCIATING. I was dying watching Seattle torch the Saints secondary every single time.

But you've got to hand it to Seattle - they deserved the win. And it just goes to show that especially at the pro level, little things like motivation and chemistry (i.e. the 'no one believes in us so we band together' principle) count for an awful lot.

Congrats man, and I'll be rooting for your guys against the Reds-symbol stealing Bears.

genewv
genewv
1/9/2011 11:16:36 PM #

Certainly agree on folks coming out of the service. All that has to be non-personal in the sense everyone has to be expendable for it to work. Sad, but true.

On Lynch, that has to be one of the greatest runs ever, especially if one considers what was on the line. I don't watch much NFL, but was watching that with my daughter. Wow!

Bo Jackson did that to a lot of people. Had he not had the injury, who knows how great he might have been? One of the great athletes of all time--Jim Thorpe like.

On the Seahawks, used to follow them closely when I followed NFL. I knew Curt Warner, the running back, as he was from my neck of the woods, played against several of my FB and BB teams, so I instantly became a Sea Hawk's fan when he went there. Great guy, he really was--not to mention a heck of a RB until his injury. First true freshman to ever start for Joe Paterno.

rpa
rpa
1/9/2011 11:31:10 PM #

Wow.  Those Seahawks teams when I was a little kid were what hooked me.  Curt Warner (not to be confused with Kurt Warner, as sadly happens these days) was an incredible RB.  Chuck Knox's playcalling really suited him.

I have to admit that I was always a bigger fan of two of the best football players I ever saw, who both played on those teams - Steve Largent and Kenny Easley.  

I was so crushed when I got to be a bit older and realized I was never going to have the body to be a shortstop or a strong safety like my childhood idols, Davey Concepcion and Kenny Easley. Being a lineman wasn't nearly as fun as taking peoples heads and appearing at just the right time to pick off a pass like Easley did.   Playing 1st base wasn't quite as rewarding as turning a double play.  But I still wanted to wear 13 playing baseball and 45 playing football.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/9/2011 11:47:23 PM #

Wow...My last name comment was taken seriously.

Gene, I was never a favorite of my HS football coach who was also my freshman baseball coach, and later a varsity assistant. I was always called my my last name when most others received a different treatment.

Its why it stands out to me and obviously had some truth for you too. As RPA points out he seems to get names wrong except vet guys he likes.

Just the pitiful amount of playing time PJ got the early part of the past 2 seasons shows how much respect Dusty has for him.

What was the quote? "Everybody plays on my team"? Since when? Ask PJ what he thinks about that.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
1/10/2011 7:36:19 AM #

To all of those on the body dimension reduction plan. Good luck, keep working on it. I've lost 33 lbs since the middle of November.I've got a lot more to go.I'm trying to get back to looking like a half barrel instead of the whole damned beer truck. It's not easy. stay disciplined and it will work out. It's worth it for health reasons, not to mention the fact that chicks dig you again.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/10/2011 9:13:22 AM #

keep it up...thats a &hitload of weight to drop that fast. I've been trying to drop the same 15 for 2 years.

When you get where you want to be keep it off.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
1/10/2011 11:11:13 AM #

This is the easy stuff to get rid of. It's kind of like the garbage on an aircraft carrier, you just dump it overboard. The rest is going to be a slower process, about 2lbs a week for the next 10 weeks. After that about a lb. a week till I get where I want to be. Tell all the single ladies they can look,admire and yearn for me, but I'm already spoken for.

genewv
genewv
1/10/2011 9:12:47 AM #

RPA,

I really enjoyed those teams as well. They always seemed on the verge, but could never quite get over the hump. Curt is still in the Seattle area, i do believe. He owns a big car dealership out there--or, at least he did.

Quick story. When Curt was in high school in little ole' southern WV, playing at a single A school, many thought he was way overblown, could never run with the "big boys." That was the WVU take, by the way. One night I go to scout a BB game at his school with a rival. Always had to get to the game by the JV game, else you could never get in. BB is really huge here.

I always thought Curt was the best athlete I had ever seen in HS--but, being at a small school my self, I was at least a little doubtful of my ability to gauge a huge D-1 prospect. I noticed one of my high school teammates at the game, then a asst. at Pitt. He comes over, we talk a little, and I ask him, "Do you think Curt can be a true D-1 running back.?"  He looks at me, says look across the gym, and proceeded to point out to me in the crowded little gym ( seated about 600-700 people, if all squeezed in real hard! ) the following people, all within speaking distance of each other--Jackie Sherril from Pitt, Tom Osborne from Neb., and Joe Paterno from Pen St., all watching a little single A BB game in the coal fields of southern WV! Then he says to me, "What do you think?" True story.

Champ,

How bout that? Once you experience something like that, you become very aware of it--as you did. It is not a meaningless pick-up. I think you are onto something. Now, we must hope WJ says play this kid, i got to find out what he can, cannot do. Of course, I doubt that happens, but it could.

Soccer,

Congrats. You can say all you want, but I know how you are losing that weight--you are making the wife cook!

Could not resist, as you once stated you married the only Italian girl that never cooked.

Keep it going, pal.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/10/2011 11:09:16 AM #

Hey Gene...thanks. I quit Football because of that guy. It was easily my best sport. Not my biggest love but damn I could run over people. There is much to be said about running and playing with a controlled anger.

I should have pictured my coach instead of quitting, Waterboy style.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
1/10/2011 11:12:08 AM #

She's tried. She just sucks at it! I made her quit.

rpa
rpa
1/10/2011 8:29:15 PM #

Watching him play basketball in HS must have been a treat.  What an athlete.

The only thing I got to see like that was when a friend who was REALLY into basketball (as in, when a guy signs a letter of intent halfway across the country, he knows an amazing amount of trivia about him) gave me a call one weekend when I was back in Ohio and said, "If you've got time, there's something you gotta see.  I have an extra ticket to a basketball game tonight.  This kid is going to be the next Michael Jordan.  Maybe better."

Of course, even as a 16-year old everyone knew LeBron James was special.  But watching him in person playing against those other kids was just unreal.  Never saw anything else quite like it.

btalbert25
btalbert25
1/10/2011 10:10:57 AM #

I know everyone is upset about Renteria instead of Janish, but I just have to wonder, do we all love Janish for the player he is, or the player we think he can be?  I know he's a good fielder, but I have no confidence in him at all at the plate.  Especially getting a full season's worth of at bats.  Don't get me wrong, I love seeing him fire the ball over to first, dude has a cannon, and he knocks down a lot of balls other guys don't normally get to, but it's not exactly like he's Ozzie Smith out there either.  I don't know, I hope if he gets a chance he proves me wrong.  If, as everyone says, Renteria is going to get hurt anyway, then Janish will get plenty of time to prove his worth.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/10/2011 11:06:17 AM #

Renteria hasn't had much of an injury history. Last year was tough on him though. Still, I'm glad to have him but I think most want to see PJ get a shot. Winning with pitching and D up the middle is a great strength. Er has lost a step for sure.

RPA's argument about the red's not building PJ's value is a good one. I think Jack Wilson could be a very good comparison.

BTW, after seeing Janish in BP last spring and how well he hit in the spring(surprising power too) and then hearing how his off season program went, I was looking forward to 400 ab's by Janish.

Amy
Amy
1/10/2011 1:51:34 PM #

Check out the price trends for autographs at the Cards' version of Redsfest. Poor Carp.

www.kfns.com/.../Story.aspx?ID=1340735

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/10/2011 2:58:06 PM #

I feel a conversation with a certain son coming up....

Who in there right friggin mind burns a $5 bill on a Lohse autograph?

Mary
Mary
1/10/2011 3:27:10 PM #

who pays anything for an autograph?

Amy
Amy
1/10/2011 4:38:49 PM #

The best fans in baseball.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/10/2011 5:43:16 PM #

Hey those are going to be worth something some day!!!!!

If you don't think Lohse/Miller/Molina/Schumaker/Pujols/Carpenter/Wainwright all aren't going to be HOF's you are crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
1/10/2011 4:18:20 PM #

FWIW - My take on autographs. I have acquired 6 atographs in 52+ years, personally. I didn't pay for any of them. I got Pete Rose and Johnny Bench at a Superbowl party at the Precinct in 1981. Pete sat at our table for a good 1/2 hour and I thought noone would believe me, so I asked. I got Anthony Munoz on a flight from Midway to Cincy, again, 'cause I thought noone would believe me. He addressed it to my son. I took my son-in-law to a spring game in Sarasota 2 years ago. I showed him how and where to get autographs by getting Hatcher and Davis to sign a ball for me. Still got them all. Wouldn't sell them and wouldn't have paid for them. I just don't get the cash "value" concept. Personal value sure, but cash,... I don' think so.  

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
1/10/2011 4:21:11 PM #

.. Forgot Joe Torre which I got at a small Valentines Day dance at my former church in rural Cincy suburbs. This one was also to prove he was actually there. I told Joe that and it made him smile.

Amy
Amy
1/10/2011 5:24:12 PM #

WHITE DEATH APPROACHETH! Seriously, why do people still get so riled up about the potential of 3-5" of snow. IN OHIO. Gah.

How many days till pitchers & catchers report?

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
1/10/2011 5:50:37 PM #

EVERYONE GET TO THE STORE AND GET BREAD,MILK,BEANS AND TOILET PAPER!!!!!!!!
DON'T FORGET THE HAND POWERED CAN OPENER ,IN CASE THE POWER GOES OUT FOR TWO WEEKS.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/10/2011 5:45:35 PM #

Reds sign Fred Lewis/youcangetofftheledgenowAshland

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/10/2011 5:48:49 PM #

FRED LEWIS!

I'm happy now. Seriously - I'm not hard to please.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
1/10/2011 5:54:04 PM #

Cel-a-brate good times, come on. Let's all celebrate and have a good time.

River Otter
River Otter
1/10/2011 5:57:38 PM #

Can't complain about the price - $900,000.  WJ can bargain shop with the best of them!

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/10/2011 5:53:29 PM #

Wow is all I have to say to this article, was reading about Auburn's scandals from the early 90s, learned of this guys existence.

#1 NFL draft pick despite these massive WTF warning signs, which are at the bottom of the first page of the article: query.nytimes.com/.../fullpage.html

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/10/2011 5:56:05 PM #

So thinking about it, very shrewd moves by Jocketty.

Renteria is your starting SS/Lead off guy v. Lefties, Gomes plays LF

Fred Lewis is your starting LF/lead off guy v. righties, Janish plays SS.

Boom. Goes. The. Dynamite.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/10/2011 5:58:06 PM #

Perfect.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/10/2011 6:01:20 PM #

Renteria posted a .794 OPS against lefties, Lewis a .796 OPS against righties.

Gomes posted a .856 OPS against righties. In all this, I see Janish geting a shot, but he's never hit righties before. At all. .596 career OPS against RHP. Doubt he sees too many lefties this year considering how good Renteria was last year and in his career against them.

rpa
rpa
1/10/2011 8:41:26 PM #

This isn't a bad idea, except as Grizz points out Janish against all of those righties might be painful at times.  Hopefully those looking at his numbers would keep that in mind if he ends up hitting .230 because Renteria sucks up all of the at-bats against lefties.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/10/2011 6:23:51 PM #

Things are rounding out nicely...Is the 40 man full? haven't checked yet? I guess you need to leave a spot or two for Hermida or Willis or some other ST non roster guy.

RedFaced
RedFaced
1/10/2011 6:39:50 PM #

Hard to complain about the Lewis signing, especially at that price.  Only concern is when/if Heisey gets a shot to play.  Who knows how the season will play out though.  Any one guy could catch fire and win the majority of starts including Heisey.  I think that's the main thing about the latest signings.  You aren't married to any one guy starting simply because you over-paid for him (see T-virus and CPatt).  Let these guys all battle it out and the best man(men) get the majority of starts.  The platoon might just work.  

I mean yeah, I'd love to have that proven leadoff hitter at the top of the lineup day in and day out - just not sure how the Reds do that on their budget.  

Redwakeup
Redwakeup
1/10/2011 7:06:57 PM #

Dad?

Yeah Son?

I've finished my homework, can you check it out?

I dunno son! What is it? Math, science, english...? If so your mom's responsible for that. All that I'm responsible for is your Phys. Ed. Home work.

Well, it's English, but I wrote a paper about the Cardinals.

Well, why didn't you say so! that's my best subject! Let's see....... O.K., ....that's good....Pujols is not spelled "P-O-O-H-O-L-E-S", although Stinky's name is funnier that way. It looks pretty good there, son.

Dad, you need to sign my homework for my teacher to know you looked at my work.

There you go, son. That will be $40 bucks.

But dad, I'm your son?

Hey, just be glad Stinky wasn't looking over your work. That would cost you $175 bucks. Pay up!



Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
1/10/2011 7:17:27 PM #

Good one !

rpa
rpa
1/10/2011 8:32:35 PM #

Awesome.

rpa
rpa
1/10/2011 8:39:19 PM #

So, uh, autographs.  I really don't get it that much.  I have a few I got when I was a kid.  I suppose they were kinda cool.  I still have all of them.  Grown-ups chasing autographs is a bit odd to me.  Paying for them is just kinda weird, mostly.  I can really only think of one thing I'd like.  I still have my first baseball card, I got it from a neighbor kid (Phillies fan.  Blecch.)  It was a Dave Concepcion '82 Fleer.  I suppose if I ever knew I had a chance to get his autograph, I might take that card, dog-eared and beat up as it is, and have him sign it.  Beyond that?  Meh.

I like the Lewis signing, I think.  The price is right, and it rounds out the outfield OK.  I'm disappointed the Reds didn't use some of the pitching/corner IF prospects to fill out a glaring area of need and have instead decided to go with some kind of Gomes/Heisey/Lewis/Stubbs/Bruce rotation in the outfield.  But, I suppose there are still several months left where the Reds can make a deal.

The nice thing is that Lewis is another reasonably competent bat you can plug in if someone gets hurt or is just in a nasty slump and needs a couple of days off.  It's an upgrade over Nix, I think.  I can see Lewis getting a lot of work as a defensive replacement for Gomes even when he doesn't start.

stlredsfan
stlredsfan
1/10/2011 10:22:45 PM #

I guess Jocketty didn't want Gomes to be lonely.  With Lewis and Renteria many Reds' bloggers will numerous whipping sticks.  I was hoping for Lewis instead of Podsednik and I'd be happy with 12-15 homers, 25-30 steals, an OBP in the .340-.350 range, and hopefully a minimum number of bonehead plays.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/10/2011 10:51:26 PM #

One of Jocketty's quotes was that the Reds chose Lewis over Podsednik.

That's actually what I like most about the move, even if that's not exactly how it went down, you just have a feeling in the past that the GM might have said something more along the lines of: we had an offer out to Podsednik, but went another direction.

I like the direct, this was OUR pick approach. cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/.../article.jsp

From Lewis' agent: "There were multiple offers but none presented the fit Cincinnati did -- from the manager on down," Lewis' agent, Scott Leventhal, said. "His ability to lead off is something everybody is excited about. He's able to do whatever [manager] Dusty Baker needs."
--And "We'll see how it plays out in Spring Training and it could potentially be [a platoon], yes," Jocketty said.

Janish is the starter: Since Renteria agreed to terms on a deal with the Reds on Thursday, there had been a lot of speculation about the status of Janish at shortstop. When the club gets to camp, he will still be the regular shortstop.
"I called Janish on Saturday to make sure he knew that," Jocketty said.

After reading the article I linked to, it's clear the Reds are done this offseason. Walt pretty much laid it all out there.

stlredsfan
stlredsfan
1/10/2011 11:12:26 PM #

The 40 man is full and there should be a minimum number of non roster invitees to spring training which is an indication of the talent and depth on the club.

SDDennis
SDDennis
1/10/2011 11:58:07 PM #

The 25-man already looks set:

Starting 8:
Ryan Hanigan
Joey Votto
Brandon Phillips
Paul Janish
Scott Rolen
Fred Lewis
Drew Stubbs
Jay Bruce

Bench:
Ramon Hernandez
Miguel Cairo
Edgar Renteria
Jonny Gomes
Chris Heisey

SPs:
Johnny Cueto
Bronson Arroyo
Edinson Volquez
Homer Bailey
Travis Wood

Pen:
Mike Leake
Aroldis Chapman
Bill Bray
Jared Burton
Francisco Cordero
Nick Massett
Logan Ondrusek

Outside looking in:
Dontrelle Willis
Jordan Smith
Juan Francisco
etc.

Leake might be in AAA, or could he be the long-man out of the pen? It's going to be an interesting spring for him after I read that he's pretty much just been resting all off-season so far.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/11/2011 12:14:31 AM #

I'd be inclined to say Hermida makes it and the same w/ Willis, but as STL points out the 40 man is full, so you probably got it right here.

Carlos Fisher, Matt Maloney, DRH, and LeCure I guess are possible DFAs, although Maloney could definitely fetch something in a trade.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/11/2011 12:15:36 AM #

And to follow this point, still too many pitchers on the 40 man. Last year there was like 22 at one point, this year got it down to 20. Would probably rather see 18/19, but 20 is much better than where they were last year.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/11/2011 9:01:27 AM #

Most likely to come off the 40 man...DRay.

I think Carlos Fisher is expendable if Arredondo pans out and Burton is closr to the old Burton. There are a handful of guys in the system who could fill that role.

As for the 25...I don't see Leake coming out of the pen. He either starts for the big club or he starts in AAA. I don't see Chapman as a lock either. I'm still not convinced he doesn't get a chance to start in AAA. He has nothing to prove in AAA as a reliever though.

Maloney's fate is tied to how well Willis is coming along IMO. It would be nice to see the reds package Maloney, DRay and another guy or two for a solid ML bullpen guy if Willis finds it.

RedFaced
RedFaced
1/11/2011 11:34:20 AM #

Yes you have to feel DRays's days are just about over.  I don't see Fisher sticking around long either.  

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/11/2011 10:36:21 AM #

This from Fay

Five bullpen spots are pretty much set: Francisco Cordero, Nick Masset, Aroldis Chapman, Bill Bray and Logan Ondrusek. Jose Arrendondo will probably get a spot. He’s the right-hander the Reds signed just before he had Tommy John. He’s healthy and the Reds are high on him.

I think if Leake doesn’t make the rotation you could see him the bullpen because he’s such a good hitter.

Not a lot of spots to be had, but it should make for a lot of spring drama.

Seriously Fay...I don't get the logic? Leake in the pen because he can hit? Just the opposite would happen. He would be the long guy. In tight games the Long guy needs to sit there in case he's needed. Ask Owings how many AB's he got while hiding in the pen for weeks last year. It wasn't till the rosters expanded that he got AB's. Leake would get more AB's as a starter you fool.  

RedFaced
RedFaced
1/11/2011 11:33:38 AM #

While he may be connected because of his job Fay's baseball intellect is very low and he proves it on a semi-daily basis.  

RedFaced
RedFaced
1/11/2011 11:22:28 AM #

I have to feel that Smith makes it over Burton to start the year.  I really like What Smith did out of the pen last year.  I also feel that Leake will likely start in AAA which means both Burton and Smith could be in the pen but then you don't have much of a long man in there.  

Personally I don't see any space for Hermida on the roster.  He better have a hell of a Spring else his stay will be very very short lived.  

Also, don't give up on a mid-season trade by the Reds to fill a need.  I expect Alonso will have a great first half and his trade value should be much higher.  Maloney, Fisher, Heisey, Valaika, Francisco could all be potential trade chips.

RedFaced
RedFaced
1/11/2011 11:29:55 AM #

At this point, while not overwhelmed by the moves the Reds have made I must say that I like the construction of the 25 man much more than I did to start last season.  

The starting outfield appears stronger.  The backup outfielders appear to be stronger.  The infield looks just as good if not better defensively and the the backups look good also.  The starting pitching looks much stronger than the start of last year and even the bullpen looks better with Ondrusek, Smith and Chapman beginning the year with the Reds.

Would love to see Frazier have a good Spring but he starts in AAA no matter what this year.  Here's hoping he is able to put together a solid year there along with Mesoraco and Cozart.

genewv
genewv
1/11/2011 11:31:44 AM #

I must say I am very glad WJ made it clear PJ is the starting SS. Otherwise, i would have been very doubtful of his opportunity. For reasons like this, and the ones mentioned above, I really, really like WJ as a GM. He runs things exactly like i think they should go. JMO.

Now Janish either succeeds, or fails, based on his extended performance chance. That is fair enough. Now we can all be happy however it goes. I think he succeeds, but that is just me.

Nice to see a roster that leaves some guys in Louisville that we would like to see up here. That is called a real talent pool, real farm system. Been a long time.

How long is it again till ST?!!!!!!

RedFaced
RedFaced
1/11/2011 11:31:57 AM #

The only real question I have going into this season is lineup configuration.  I guess it will be better with Lewis at the top most of the time.  Do you bat BP second and put Stubbs down around 6th or 7th?  Do you put Stubbs at the top of the lineup when Gomes starts for Lewis?  What do you all think the lineup will be against left-handers? right-handers? When Dusty gets a wild hair up his @ss? (which is most days).  

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/11/2011 12:00:31 PM #

I would think if Lewis starts in LF he will lead off based on Dusty's philosophy. Stubbs hits 6th or 7th and Bruce 5th or 6th.

Vs LHP Stubbs leads off and Gomes in the 5 hole with Bruce hitting 6th.

The real question is BP? does he hit 2 or 5? that affects where SS and C hit in the line up

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/11/2011 12:03:33 PM #

oh darn....I missed Fay's chat

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/11/2011 12:20:22 PM #

He skips my question but answers what he's doing in goodyear for fun or why is marty so calm?

Tool

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
1/11/2011 12:48:32 PM #

A little off the topics, but not really !
Major Richard Winters of "Band Of Brothers" Fame , recently died. His story is a lesson of leadership all who are involved in athletics,business,politics or countless other ventures, should be aware of. There is a certain football team owner who should try to emulate this man,but I'm sure it would fall on deaf ears.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/11/2011 12:58:01 PM #

I loved that guy. Great interviews with him in the BOB box set.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/11/2011 12:59:55 PM #

It won't be long before we lose all of these folks. I love that the stories these men tell have been taken down and recorded in the many WWII specials in recent years.

btalbert25
btalbert25
1/11/2011 2:11:30 PM #

I waited about 13 years, but finally received a very important piece of history from WWII this Christmas.  When I was 16 years old, my grandfather passed away.  It was in August of 1997.  The day he died my grandma asked me if there was anything I wanted and I said I would love to have Grandpa's purple heart.  She started crying and said I promise I'll give it to you, but I can't let it go right now.  Instead she gave me his ring from the DAV, which was pretty cool.  

Over the years my grandma moved in with my aunt and then moved to Florida.  She had dimensia and wound up passing away in April of 2009.  I approached my aunt and said you know, I'd really love Grandpa's purple heart, she kind of blew me off.  

This July they were in town to sell my grandparent's house and farm in Bracken County and my aunt invited me to come to the house to go through all their stuff and take anything I wanted.  I found a year book from my grandpa's training in the service, his honorable discharge paper, and some other memorabilia.  My aunt said she had the purple heart for me but it was at her home in Florida, she would send it ASAP.  

So, December 20th this year, I check the mail and there's a box, low and behold it's my grandpa's purple heart.  It was a great Christmas present and now I have all of his army trinkets/memoriablia and the flag that drapped his casket at his funeral.  I'm in the process of identifying all of his ribbons/awards, then I'm going to come up with some way to display them proudly.  I never served, or really ever had any interest in the Military, but he loved nothing more than to talk about his days in the army.  I'm so happy to finally have all the things he held dear to him so I can show them off and retell his stories when I have kids and grandkids.  

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
1/11/2011 1:49:17 PM #

Absolutely right!

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/11/2011 2:52:36 PM #

I read your comments below. I never had a close relative serve but I have always been infatuated with way in which men from this era carried themselves. What a horror to do what many of them had to do and what they had to endure.

most people under 50 have no clue and the younger people are the less they know about this group.

This country was great for about 50 years and out grandfathers generation made it that way. This country will not be the same. Our run as the world power is coming to an end and it won't be a coincidence that it will coincide with that generations disappearance.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/11/2011 1:09:14 PM #

I hope they give everyone a real shot at the rotation. I get that Cueto and Arroyo are set, but why is Voltron a lock over Leake?

In my mind, Voltron, Bailey, Wood and Leake are fighting for three spots, but it shouldn't be a foregone conclusion that Leake is out.

Of course, I'm the least objective guy in the world when it comes to Leake...

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/11/2011 1:18:28 PM #

Volquez is considered a lock over Leake because if talent and experience. If volquez can locate he's a borderline Ace. If Leake can locate he is at best a number 4 this season.

Volquez has a nice spring and he could start opening day.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/11/2011 1:27:55 PM #

Edinson Volquez stats:

Second half of 2008: 5-3, 4.60 ERA
2009: 4-2, 4.35 ERA
2010: 4-3, 4.31 ERA

Mike Leake stats:

2010: 8-4, 4.23 ERA

I get that Volquz throws hard, but if you take away his fantastic first half of 08, his numbers look eerily similar to Leake's.

btalbert25
btalbert25
1/11/2011 2:19:43 PM #

Is it really that fair to judge what a guy did after basically sitting out a year from Tommy John surgery?  Not to mention that is including his work before being sent back to Dayton to refine his mechanics a bit.  When he got back from Dayton Volquez was pretty nasty.  I don't know I feel like when a guy comes back in the middle of the year from Tommy John, he gets a little bit of leeway.  I look for him to be nasty coming out of the gate.  It could be fair to say Bailey, Wood, and Leake are battling for a spot, but I see it being a tossup between Volquez and Cueto for who will become the ace.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/11/2011 2:45:12 PM #

I agree for the most part.

Leake, Wood and Bailey fighting for 2 spots. I have a feeling this is the year for Bailey. I think he puts it together and if healthy he is a solid 3 type. I hope Wood continues to grow. We really need a LH presence.

I really, really like Leake. Its not man love like AAT. He really could use some seasoning though. If he shows he can get guys out at AAA better than he did at the end of LY then we have some tough decisions to make.

We all know we will need 7 or 8 starters anyway. Leake, LeCure and Maloney will all be important(maybe even Willis, i hope not)

btalbert25
btalbert25
1/11/2011 3:30:24 PM #

I'm more inclined to think Bailey is a lock too, and I also believe he may finally break out this year.  It's funny, listenning to some "experts" they feel he is the pitcher in the Red's system that has the best chance of being a number 1 starter.  There are 3 guys in the rotation who all have the potential to  be the anchor of the rotation.  I do think it comes down to Leake and Wood, and Wood is going to probably win out.  He proved he was ready for the big stage and if he and Leake are equal, he has to get the edge for being lefty.

I don't want it to sound like I'm hating Leake, I just see him as the odd man out this year.  What he did last season was great, and not too long ago he would've been a number 1-3 for the Reds.  It's a great sign for the strength of the team if he is the 6th best option.  Ultimately, I think he'll get traded.  If he starts off in AAA and has a great start a package with him and Alonso may really strengthen the team at the trade deadline.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/11/2011 4:17:44 PM #

I'm judging a three year pattern - in the second half of the year in 08, he was basically what he was in 09 (before the injury) and in 10 after.

I think you're wrong on Leake. We'll see though.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/11/2011 4:54:33 PM #

we're on the same side here. Volquez has all the tools to be the guy. Leake does not. It is entirely possible Leake ends up with a much better and longer career than EV because EV flames out or never finds really learns how to pitch.

Either way I want both to perform up to their ability. We need both of them. If Leake does well enough to earn a spot then he should have a spot. I just don't think that it will come at the expense of a healthy Edinson Volquez this season.

Most important thing is options and Leake has all of them. If everyone performs well enough to earn a spot then that will be the tie breaker.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/11/2011 5:01:28 PM #

I suppose that sounded combative, and I didn't mean it to be - I mean I think he's wrong about Leake getting traded.

Here's what I want: open competition. All five guys earn their keep, and the guy who pitches the worst in ST is out. That's it - if it's Leake, it's Leake. If it's Bailey, it's Bailey. If it's Voltron, it's Voltron. If it's Wood, it's Wood.

What seems to be the consensus, though, is that Leake is out. Why? Because he got tired at the end of the year? Because he was the best pitcher on the team for only half a season (as opposed to Voltron and Bailey, who weren't for any part of the year)? Is it as simple as 'he has options'? What it is it?

That's all I'm saying. Give the guys a shot, because I want the best team on the field in 2011.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/11/2011 6:14:58 PM #

I think he's out for the simple fact that he has options. Bailey has no options and unless he tanks he's in. I don't see either being traded since depth at pitching is our strength.

After Leake and Chapman we aren't that deep. Lecure and Maloney are short term stop gaps. The next group of prospects are 3 or 4 years away.

RedFaced
RedFaced
1/11/2011 1:53:43 PM #

So could the line-up look like this most days:

Lewis LF
Phillips 2B
votto 1B
Rolen 3B
Bruce RF
Stubbs CF
hernandez/hannigan C
janish/Renteria SS

or

Stubbs CF
Phillips 2B
votto 1B
Rolen 3B
Bruce RF
Gomes LF
hernandez/hannigan C
janish/Renteria SS

I'll be honest, I don't mind those line-ups.  I would not drop Bruce any lower than 5th though and I'd consider batting him 4th when Rolen does not play.  Get him as many AB's as you can and that means hitting closer to the top of the lineup.  

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/11/2011 2:56:19 PM #

Until Bruce shows more consistency vs LHP Dusty could drop him to 6th moving Reneria to the 2 and push BP to 5. Reneria hits LHP well if I remember correctly. Gomes/Heisey would slide to 7th.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
1/11/2011 1:55:16 PM #

I lost my dad almost 30 years ago. One of his shipmates got in touch with me a few years ago and told me a lot of stories and filled in some of the blanks of what I knew of my dad's service in the Pacific. Scary stuff and routine heroism. Those guys never seem to blow their own horns. Their "brothers" have to do it for them.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
1/11/2011 1:56:16 PM #

Reply to Champ above.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/11/2011 3:07:18 PM #

I think the fun battle this spring will be for the 5th OF spot. If Lewis is in the game there is no LH bat of the bench. This is to me why Heisey or even Gomes is not a lock. If Hermida impresses then Heisey will be spending some time in AAA or with a different club via trade.

Heisey hurt himself in my eyes with his performance vs LHP. Gomes kills it so he has a job. Heisey really needs to show improvement here or he won't be here. frazier is 25 and playing LF. With Lewis' ability to play everywhere Heisey is less valuable. Hermida can play both corners and Sappelt and Perez are not far behind and could be similar players to Heisey.

I think Heisey or Gomes will be dealt sometime before 2011 is over.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
1/11/2011 4:23:08 PM #

A while back I mentioned the Bleacher Report over here and got some negative feedback which I didn't understand.... until I read today's cr^p. How can they be so sure that Renteria hits 1st or 2nd? WJ fills a need with the best player available (my opinion) and they do a hit piece on him. 5 reasons why I will never read The Bleacher Report Again will be coming to a blog near you, soon. Smile

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/11/2011 4:24:59 PM #

[i]Will it be in slideshow form? W/ hot girls on each page? Please let it be in slideshow form w/ hot girls on each page![/i]

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/11/2011 4:55:30 PM #

????????????

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
1/11/2011 4:57:44 PM #

Look at that embarrassingly ignorant site and you'll understand.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
1/11/2011 4:44:29 PM #

Pardon the short memory of an old man, but do y'all recall if Wlad is still under team control for 2011?

Mary
Mary
1/11/2011 5:04:00 PM #

no (I'm following Champs example of succinctness)

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/11/2011 5:11:38 PM #

This is the problem w/ a short answer.....do you not recall whether Wlad is under control, or is Wlad not under team control.

If he is under team control, then some team in Japan is gonna be a little pizzed.......

Mary
Mary
1/11/2011 5:17:27 PM #

lawyer-speak

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/11/2011 5:15:00 PM #

www.mister-baseball.com/.../

Wlad had gone the way of little boy and fat man.

rpa
rpa
1/11/2011 8:13:59 PM #

I think that Leake is going to AAA this year to start because he has options left and did not pitch as well as Wood.  That simple.  He's really going to have the most value as a starter, and I am not sure he's one of the best 5 right now.  But all it will take is an injury or a well-timed trade or an implosion by Volquez or Cueto or Wood or Bailey (it almost seems likely to happen at some point if you look at the list all together)  and he'll be back.  But I think it's in his best interest to continue to work on starting and building stamina.  I would think that the spot in the pen is going to go to Arredondo if he pitches well, or otherwise Smith.

I think Smith can beat out Burton with a good spring based on his performance last year, which wasn't bad at all for coming straight from AA.

The only other scenario I can see is Chapman going to AAA as a starter if he struggles a lot in the spring and Willis pitches well.  There's not much reason to send Chapman back to Louisville to pitch relief.  If you decide he doesn't belong on the 25 man right now, start stretching him out again.  He needs to learn how to pitch out of the stretch and he needs to learn another pitch.  Starting will give him more opportunities to do that, as well as continue to face some adversity while he is on the mound and overcome it instead of getting rattled.

So, if you get a guy or three who end up on the 40 and there are no trades, I see DFAs in this order:

Herrera
Fisher
LeCure

Anything beyond that, and they'll try to swing a 2 for one or a trade for a minor leaguer to a team with a gap on their 40 man.  In that case, I think you can add Maloney to that list (I could see him getting traded, but not released, and he'd probably bring more in a trade than the other three if the point is to free up a roster spot).

Enough to make you wish MLB would prohibit draft signings that put guys on the 40-man, I suppose it's the modern equivalent of being a bonus baby... but I sure would rather see Herrera and Fisher stick around than have Grandal and Alonso taking up space before they need to.  Or maybe another outfielder.  I still think 6 isn't enough for the 40-man.

To me, two of the most interesting (not necessarily best...) guys of the 40 on the pitching side are Daryl Thompson and Philippe Valiquette.  I think if those guys aren't up here sometime in 2011, I could see them being traded or dumped next off-season.  Thompson is a bit old to be putting up a 3.71 ERA at AA, but then again his peripheral numbers are good.  I am not sure how you have a .961 WHIP, 9.2 Ks/9, 1.9 BB/9 and 3 HR in 12 starts and end up 0-5 with a 3.71 ERA.  Valiquette seems to be having a very long learning curve.  But lefties who throw 95 get lots of chances.

rpa
rpa
1/11/2011 8:15:48 PM #

The "Bonus Baby" rule if you haven't heard of it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Rule

rpa
rpa
1/11/2011 8:20:37 PM #

Weird fact... of the last 13 players to go to the majors without playing any other professional baseball (foreign or in the minors), three of them went to Arizona State:

Mike Leake
Bob Horner
Eddie Bane

No other school has more than one of the other 10.

I had never heard of Eddie Bane before.  But his brother is the CEO of Trader Joe's, and that's where the beer I am drinking came from.  Go figure.

rpa
rpa
1/11/2011 8:22:32 PM #

I love all of the old scanned newspapers on google.

news.google.com/newspapers

Man, I am such a dork.

rpa
rpa
1/11/2011 8:48:13 PM #

Time for the annual "Verducci Effect" article:

sportsillustrated.cnn.com/.../index.html

Number 9 on the list?  Travis Wood.

rpa
rpa
1/11/2011 8:57:44 PM #

I have the place all to myself, so I am just going to start spouting nonsense.

I was thinking about how iTunes has changed a few things about how I listen to music - but to me the strangest one is that it tells me exactly when the last time I listened to something was.  It's weird.  What amazes me is that I can now tell you that the last time Johnny Cash sing "Hey Porter" was May 27th, 2009.  It's also something that I could probably sing the song for you (if not play it, it's deceptively difficult to play) from memory before having listened to it again right now, even though I had not listened to it for 19 months.

The obvious takeaway from this is that I need to start writing songs about where I put my damned car keys, because I can never seem to remember that.

Amy
Amy
1/11/2011 9:26:30 PM #

I like the genius thingy, but I question its name. It can't make playlists from several things I've tried. Got a Shuffle for the gym because I quickly grew tired of lugging its big sister 80GB around (workout pants for women hardly EVER have pockets, did you know that? annoying) and have been enjoying picking and choosing things from my library. In my spare time. (I'm up to C, and it's been a month? gah.)

rpa
rpa
1/11/2011 11:55:32 PM #

I am far more systematic.  I have actually rated all 20000 or so items in the "library".  I have playlists set up by rating to give me things I haven't heard in the last 6, 12, 18, 24 months based on how I rated them.  I don't want to forget anything.

Amy
Amy
1/12/2011 10:33:07 AM #

I'm a little bit afraid of you now.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
1/12/2011 10:48:55 AM #

I'll tell you the same thing I tell Soccerson. "If you put your keys in the same place every time, you know where they are." It's really funny about younger people. They are really adept at technological things like organizing your playlists according to the first note of the bridge or something like that, but can't remember where they put their soccer shoes or car keys.

Redwakeup
Redwakeup
1/12/2011 11:03:11 AM #

I know that I always find something that I've lost, in the last place I lookedWink

genewv
genewv
1/11/2011 10:24:38 PM #

Good stuff guys and gals.

Nothing to really add to the cart, but I did enjoy reading the military stuff. Old history teacher, you know.

rpa
rpa
1/11/2011 11:53:05 PM #

No wonder I like you.  My two favorite subjects were always History and Chemistry.  History was probably my favorite, though.

I wrote an paper for a final in a literature class in college that was theoretically about "The American Experience".  I will never forget the comment I got at the end of the paper... the prof wrote "I wouldn't accept this stream-of-consciousness crap from just anyone, but I know you can write.  This is from the heart, and powerful. A-"

The thing I wrote (I think it ended up being about 30 pages) was basically about one of my junior high history teachers who was one of my favorite people.  He was an African-American Vietnam Vet, taught 8th grade American History in a predominately white small town, and had a hand-lettered poster on the front his desk with a saying that became one of my favorites: "I am always fair, but I may not be equitable".  A subtle statement, to be sure.  I used to look at that poster and think about what it meant.

In any case, I wrote a long, wordy paper with a lot of simplistic imagery.  Hey, I was a kid and I had just discovered Ezra Pound.  What can I say?   Most of it centered around my stoic, tough history teacher's reaction to a Veterans' Day assembly that our local American Legion had set up.  And about my parents talking to me when I was a little kid about the 4th of July and why we had fireworks.  And about my uncle talking about being in the Navy in the 70s, and about my great-uncle refusing to talk about what he saw in France in WWI, and about my Dad talking about how he felt when his brother went to Vietnam.  I still have a copy of the thing.  I re-read it a few years ago (about 15 years after I wrote it), and the thing is a mess.  But it got its point across.

A was always (and still am) a little scattered.  Maybe that's why I ended up dropping out of college... couldn't decide between computer science and philosophy, so I just got a job.  I've never been good at making decisions.  Heh.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
1/12/2011 10:59:10 AM #

I was a history major in college. It's always been my favorite subject. The aspect of hi"story" I like the most is the "story". There is so much to be learned through the experiences of those who have gone before us,be it Aristotle or your junior high history teacher.
Philosophy huh? "Aristotle,Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle.Hobbs was fond of the dram. Rene Descartes was a drunken fart. I drink therefore I am." I love Monty Python. Hello Bruce!
By the way I'm good with both Renteria and Lewis. I'm still not sold on Heisey. I think he has to cheat on a good fastball to get his hands through the hitting zone.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/12/2011 6:48:57 PM #

And he can't hit LHP which will seal his fate if that trend continues.

History was always my favorite even with my least favorite coach as my teacher. I initially though that would be my major but I am one materialistic son of a B so business and marketing became my new love.

I still spend hours a week on one of the history channels absorbing as much as possible.

genewv
genewv
1/12/2011 10:49:47 AM #

RPA,

Interesting, to say the least.

I fell in love with history after i started teaching it, actually. I always wanted to be a basketball coach, from the 7th grade on. Never changed my mind, ever. Back then, you could not coach unless you were a teacher, so I had to go to college. Once there, I decided I did not want to spend all day in the gym, then coach for another 3 hours, so I began looking around, figured out I could get a degree in history quicker than anything else, so I did.

It was not until after I started teaching history that I really fell in love with it--and fall in love I did--for 35 years. If I lived near a private school, college town, I would still teach a class for free--really would.

Chemistry, man I could not even spell it--much less understand it!

Redwakeup
Redwakeup
1/12/2011 11:19:29 AM #

RPA and Gene,

I always wanted to be an engineer (But not a chemical engineer). My dad was an engineer, and I was always interested in what he talked about at the dinner table. My love history unfortunately came about the time he passed away in 1993. I had moved back home to Huntington, WV and we started talking about Civil War History which was something that he got very interested in a decade before. Less than two years after I came back to Huntington, he passed away. (The December before he passed away, we were on the 48 yard line for Marshall University's first National Championship. That was our last football game together. What a great ending.)

We never seemed to talk about his experiences in the paratroopers during the Korean war. I found out some information about his service time from the Army when I started getting involved in my family history. Dad's side of the family came from Scottish Royalty. Sir Robert the Bruce to be exact. That was something that I'm betting my father never knew, since I just tracked it down four years ago.  

VottoLoco1
VottoLoco1
1/12/2011 12:15:02 PM #

Since we're on the subject of school, I seem to remember someone asking me on here a while back if Coleridge was just full of it...can't remember now who that was.

I'm taking a couple British Lit classes right now, so I can report on my findings when I find out something more.  Opium tends to do bad things, but I don't want to pass judgment on the guy just yet (I like "Rime of the Ancient Mariner").

Mary
Mary
1/12/2011 1:27:25 PM #

Opium tends to do bad things

Yeah, he couldn't remember enough of Xanadu from his opium inspired dream to ever finish it, so it's left out there undone

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/12/2011 4:14:55 PM #

Someone needs to e-mail this to Dusty.

www.fangraphs.com/.../

Amy
Amy
1/12/2011 4:42:19 PM #

Jed Lomes

SDDennis
SDDennis
1/12/2011 4:46:54 PM #

You didn't care for Fonny Gewis?

Amy
Amy
1/12/2011 5:08:40 PM #

I considered Fronny, but Jed made me laugh.

Amy
Amy
1/12/2011 5:09:11 PM #

Lingering Beverly Hillbillies memories, no doubt.

SDDennis
SDDennis
1/12/2011 5:19:52 PM #

My Beverly Hillbillies memories come with a cold sweat, and often abdominal cramps.

Amy
Amy
1/12/2011 5:34:19 PM #

Go take a dip in your ce-ment pond. That'll help.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
1/12/2011 5:52:06 PM #

Are you sure it's not the opossum stew having that effect?

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/12/2011 6:44:51 PM #

you guys have lost about 1/3 of our audience. Hell, the movie is almost 20 years old.

Mary
Mary
1/12/2011 7:20:07 PM #

Mary

Champ, Champ, Champ---the TV show with Buddy Epson et al first ran nearly 50 years ago (1962-1971), but I'll bet someone is still showing it in reruns

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/12/2011 7:58:07 PM #

It is...TV Land has marathons from time to time.

You may have missed my point. I have seen every episode in black and white and color. My point was this crown may not remember the movie much less the series.

When I grew up the choices for programming in the summer or after school were limited. There were only so many music videos I could take. I lived in re-runs of hillbillies, Jeanie, Bewitched, Andy G, All in the Family, Benson, Barney Miller, Jeffersons etc.

todays kids in their 20's and before don't have to put up with that as their entertainment. Internet, media on demand, iPad, smart phones...I would have never paid attention to such jewels if I grew up today.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/12/2011 7:31:22 PM #

Bronson Arroyo is still a funny (not lol funny mind you) dude, from MLBTR :Bronson Arroyo tells Michael Silverman of the Boston Herald that he enjoyed pitching for the Red Sox and wouldn't mind returning: "Even though I can safely say that I’ve cemented myself in Cincinnati for a while, [Boston] definitely still feels like home and in the back of my mind I know that there is no better place to play than in Fenway Park."  Arroyo said when his three-year extension with the Reds runs out after the 2013 season, he would be interested in pitching for the Rays (to play close to his family), returning to the Red Sox, or staying in Cincinnati.

Dude just speaks. John Fay will soon be reporting on trade negotiations w/ the Red Sox, in order to clear salary space.

On a non-related note, I know some (or at least 1 person)on here has mentioned Makers Mark before. Bought myself a bottle yesterday after receiving the first 2 of 4 grades for a job well done.
I'm slightly amazed by how good it actually is. Just angry that I didn't get the collectible Reds bottle they had out a few months ago in Cincy haha.

Amy
Amy
1/12/2011 7:50:12 PM #

Nectar of the gods. Makers, not Arroyo's quotes. Those are nectar to the talk-radio hosts.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/12/2011 8:01:25 PM #

Makers is a staple in my entertainment diet. I'm sure I commented on it once or twice. I am still sitting on a bottle Woodford Reserve waiting for the right moment.

rpa
rpa
1/12/2011 10:34:54 PM #

Every time I try to just keep a bottle of Woodford Reserve around, I end up drinking it.

Amy
Amy
1/12/2011 11:10:33 PM #

Weird--I bought a bottle of that last time I shopped for such things. Haven't tried it yet--on a Bacardi 8 kick.

Amy
Amy
1/12/2011 11:23:06 PM #

Has anyone done the bourbon tour in KY? I've been to the Makers distillery but not the others. A friend of mine wants to go, and I'm always up for a road trip.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/12/2011 11:50:06 PM #

Me and my buddy are planning on going to the George Dickel distillery here in the next couple of weeks in Tullahoma...this doesn't at all answer your question, but it was slightly relevant, and I'm just PUI anyway, so eh.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/12/2011 10:39:37 PM #

Well, I'll put that on the list for next, since it essentially got 2 good reviews here.

But did just mix some of that sierra mist natural w/ a little Makers, and well, I'm not sure that's getting topped. We'll see.

rpa
rpa
1/12/2011 10:35:39 PM #

Work sucks.  How many days until Spring Training?  I need a distraction.

Amy
Amy
1/12/2011 11:11:52 PM #

Seriously. Your job sounds like it sucks, yet many days I would trade you. ST can't be here soon enough.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
1/13/2011 7:32:28 AM #

Games start around Feb 25 , I think. That'd be 43 days, I believe. That still sounds too far away to start a count down. But close enough to get me looking forward.

DocProc
DocProc
1/13/2011 8:34:46 AM #

I finally have our flights, hotels, and rental car booked for the final weekend of Spring Training.  We'll see the Reds on Friday, March 25 (in Goodyear) and Saturday, March 26 (in Scottsdale).  The tickets for the 26th go on sale next week.  It's the Giants and apparently they regularly sell out that park.

I am SO counting the days.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/13/2011 9:01:12 AM #

Get those Scottsdale tix now. We thought we'd head out and pick up a ticket at th window....no. How about a scalper...no. We had to get in a line and wait for the players to release their tickets to the public. We were lucky enough to be two of about 30 people who got tickets.

Who knew were were watching the reds play the champs that day? I will say that they kicked the hell out of Leake and Wood that afternoon.

DocProc
DocProc
1/13/2011 9:35:42 PM #

Thanks for the tip, Champ.  I'll be on those tix the minute they go on sale.

RedFaced
RedFaced
1/13/2011 11:58:54 AM #

Pitchers and Catchers report Feb 16th for the Reds.  IMO that's good enough to start an official count-down once it's under a month so next Monday perhaps.

Yes I'm really reaching here as nothing really good usually comes out of Ps & Cs reporting but I always enjoy seeing which position players show up early and hearing who is in great shape (and not so great shape).

Speaking of which, I hope beyond hope that Cordero comes in 20-30 lbs lighter.  

RedFaced
RedFaced
1/13/2011 12:04:21 PM #

Also, I'd think we'd start hearing more news on the arbitration front in the next few weeks.  The deadline to exchange numbers is next Tuesday.  Arbitration hearings will then be from Feb 1 to 21st.  I'd expect the Reds to sign everyone prior to going to a hearing but I do worry about Votto some.  I don't know if the team and his agent will get together on a long-term deal or not and the arb numbers are sure to be way off from one another.  My guess is they will exchange numbers, both will be far apart, they'll then get into negotiations on a long-term deal and finally agree on one that will keep Votto in Cincy through his arb years plus an option for another year.  Dollar amount?  I have no idea.  

RedFaced
RedFaced
1/13/2011 12:19:30 PM #

Concerning Travis Wood making the Verducci list this year.  I'm not concerned with it.  He was basically one good start above the 30+ IP difference that Verducci uses for his list.  Also Wood missed some significant time in 2007 which decreased his annual IP count growth curve.  He pitched fewer IP in 2008 than he did in 2006 as a result.  Looks to me he has had an extra year or maybe even two to strengthen his arm as a result.  Wood actually had a larger increase in IP from 2008-2009 than he did 2009-2010.  

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
1/13/2011 4:05:18 PM #

  Not to mention that Travis will be 24 by the start of the season and Verducci himself uses differen criteria for pitchers over 25. So he's 1 start and 1 year away from being OK on 2 different levels? Give me a break! He may get a mid-season breather, though, just because of the log jam of potential starters. Besides, if he comes up injured, it will be Dusty's fault, not Verducci's.

Mary
Mary
1/13/2011 4:45:54 PM #

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/b7Wxb

not good news re: 1Francisco

rpa
rpa
1/13/2011 11:10:47 PM #

Hey, if his leg is hurt that means he can't "play" third base.


I just want him to hit a ton so he can be traded to an AL team.  Is that so wrong?

rpa
rpa
1/13/2011 11:12:56 PM #

I guess what I left out is that I've had a "knee contusion" (read: inflammation due to a shot to the knee that didn't quite require arthro) "drained" (read: get back out there, sissy).  And I think JF will be fine in the spring... well, fine in the sense that he's healthy, not fine in the sense that he has learned to field or take a pitch.

Ohioredsfan1
Ohioredsfan1
1/13/2011 8:49:53 PM #

Hey Guys is it time for me to see my shadow yet?

What I wanted to let you know is that a couple years ago the old grouchy fart that was one of the founders of this site posted some different Reds Christmas gifts. One of them was drawings from an artist in Maryland. They are nice sketchings and I have bought several for gifts the last two years. The reason I am bringing this up is the artist, John Yim, is trying to clean out some of his inventory and is having a fire sale. These drawings are normally $60 but he is selling them for 10 plus shipping. Thought i would let you all know in case you are interested. If you are here is the link to his site.

http://yimstudio.blogspot.com/

rpa
rpa
1/13/2011 11:14:07 PM #

In other news, just wrote a check for damn near 2K for my share of "the group's" season tix.

2011 is starting to feel real.

rpa
rpa
1/13/2011 11:23:36 PM #

A good Strong Bad quote for the evening:

"1 0 0 1 1 0 1 1 0 1 1 0 0 1.

"You may not have understood me, but I was speaking Technology.  

"The word 'Technology' means 'magic.  It's basically anything that's really cool that you don't know how it works.   And if it breaks, you have to buy a new one."

/was: Re: Ancient Memes

//robots are technology shaped like square people.

rpa
rpa
1/13/2011 11:37:06 PM #

Do you has what it takes to join the Homestarmy?  Will you bring a sack lunch and some orange slices for me?  Will you, stupid?  See if those trees you're always huggin' save you when Gordon Lightfoot comes creepin' round your back stair.


I thought I knew what ridiculous was, until this day.

DocProc
DocProc
1/14/2011 8:52:12 AM #

Nice to see another Homestar Runner fan.  I haven't kept up with it, but my sons introduced me to it years ago and I used to laugh at it with them.

VottoLoco1
VottoLoco1
1/14/2011 9:45:45 AM #

Teen Girl Squad is probably quoted at least daily in our household.  Endless laughs to be had at the website.

Redwakeup
Redwakeup
1/14/2011 1:15:27 PM #


"1 0 0 1 1 0 1 1 0 1 1 0 0 1

Shouldn't you have had at least a 16 bit message? That is only 14 bits. I know it has only been 25 years since assembler language for me at UK's Engineering school, but I thought that 8 bits made a byte, and two bytes made a word.

So you have a mis-spelled word. That's my two bits worth (Sorry, that was really bad. I shouldn't even post this.)

ndjh12
ndjh12
1/14/2011 12:20:03 PM #

Such sad news to hear Paul Keels won't be back.  He never made mistakes and was a great addition to the broadcasting crew

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/14/2011 1:06:29 PM #

But Jim Day remains! Woo!

Amy
Amy
1/14/2011 2:42:22 PM #

Sandbox denizens of the world, you've been warned.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/14/2011 1:37:05 PM #

The Reds should just start the fire sale - they have NO SHOT at 2011. The Cardinals just signed Miguel Batista and Ian Snell!

Color me petrified.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
1/14/2011 3:07:43 PM #

I know what you're saying. A 41 year old with a 4.51 career earnie and a 31 year old with a 4.80. How ever can we compete with that?

DocProc
DocProc
1/14/2011 3:11:18 PM #

Is it just me, or does Ian Snell sound like the name of a kid who got beaten up on the playground a lot?

Amy
Amy
1/14/2011 3:25:37 PM #

I am not doing anything. Well, I'm drinking tea, catching up here and debating what to use my iTunes cards on, but...nothing really. I can't remember the last time this happened. It feels odd.

VottoLoco1
VottoLoco1
1/14/2011 5:07:35 PM #

Have you noticed that, since having kids, it's difficult to enjoy those moments because you always just have this feeling that you're forgetting what you're really supposed to be doing?

Amy
Amy
1/14/2011 5:25:07 PM #

Absolutely--good description. Of course, with me, it's quite likely I *am* forgetting what I'm really supposed to be doing. It's a day off school, though, so I think I'm safe!

Mary
Mary
1/14/2011 3:36:30 PM #

cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/.../article.jsp

Sean Casey or Paul Keels--tough decision

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/14/2011 5:38:24 PM #

So on a baseball/law school related note....trying to finish up my law review/journal article.
However, I've reached an impasse. The MLB playoff "reservation" thing they had last year technically is a lottery according to NY law. However, you can get out of lottery status (or more technically never reach lottery status) based on other issues, since it's ultimately a fact based determination. I cannot make a decision on which way I want to go. Ugh.

Anybody think it's kind of shady that MLB can have you pay $40 for the right to pay face value for something that if it comes in to existence can have a market value of quadruple or more of its face value?
On the one hand, it helps get tickets into the hands of those that really want them. On the other hand, the losers really get screwed, especially since MLB doesn't disclose seat location, seat price, availability of seats, etc., when selling the reservations. So once again, ugh. I think I've talked myself into saying it shouldn't be a lottery b/c it does serve a valid purpose. But still, the whole thing stinks if you ask me.

rpa
rpa
1/14/2011 9:05:02 PM #

The right to pay face value for something that if it comes into existence can have a market value of quadruple or more of its face value?

It's kind of like an IPO.  Those are still legal, last time I checked.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/14/2011 9:24:12 PM #

I don't want to get into why it's not the same, mainly b/c I'm a few drinks in and would probably ramble on for a while, but there is a legal distinction between securities and contracts that matters in this context. Since there is no "investment" in the MLB thing- the outcome relies on chance rather than the amount you and others invest- it's just not the same.

But yeah, obviously there are similarities, which is why I lean toward concluding that the shift in public policy would say its legal.  As a society we have made many things legal that used to be illegal b/c of risk and morality, and all these old laws and old cases finding private lottery/gambling violations seem to be heading out the door. But the 7th circuit court of appeals did conclude in June that a similar scheme run by the NCAA was a lottery (at least until that case was vacated a month ago, which made my day)

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/14/2011 9:25:53 PM #

Well, I should have said "since the outcome relies on chance rather than what the offeror does w/ your and other investors money".

rpa
rpa
1/14/2011 10:06:51 PM #

I've always considered the stock market to be very similar to playing roulette, so perhaps that is why I made the comparison.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/14/2011 8:51:42 PM #

The Rays now have 11 of the first 65 picks this june and 12 of the first 88.

This draft could be full of high risk high reward players for TB.

rpa
rpa
1/14/2011 11:25:17 PM #

This is fun:

http://www.sporcle.com/games/tk925/reds_lineups

As I am working on getting my Opening Day tix lined up, it makes me realize just how much better this team is now than it was, say, 10 years ago.

DocProc
DocProc
1/15/2011 9:07:07 AM #

Interesting (and somewhat depressing) to look over the Opening Day lineups for the Reds for the past 20 years.  The ugliest part?  Our starting pitchers on Opening Day between 2002 and 2005.  They are Joey Hamilton, Jimmy Haynes, Cory Lidle, and Paul Wilson.  MAN am I glad our team has improved its starting pitching significantly.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/15/2011 10:30:11 AM #

I had a dream last night that Redsoctober was disbanded after the fight of the century. There were threats, insults, and general tomfoolery.

The argument? Whether Mike Mussina was an 'ace.'

I have one request: if we have World War III and cease to be a board, can it at least be Reds related? Is that too much to ask?

Amy
Amy
1/15/2011 10:34:18 AM #

Oh, come on, Ash, you *know* Adam Dunn would be the argument if that ever happened. Smile

Funny stuff.

DocProc
DocProc
1/15/2011 12:20:41 PM #

Smile

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/15/2011 1:10:48 PM #

Dreams are just insane....

You know that type of argument would never happen here without a certain someone to fan the flames.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/15/2011 1:12:53 PM #

BTW...doing that cool game RPA put up with the rosters I totally spaced on Adam Dunn.

I get Duncan, Taubensee, Randa, Paul Wilson, Jimenez and Crabman but I space on Dunn???

DocProc
DocProc
1/15/2011 1:54:36 PM #

I'm impressed you got Crabman.  I remember he barely made the team, but I didn't recall that he started on Opening Day.

My memory sucks.  Every year when the MLB or NFL playoffs roll around, I have trouble remembering which teams were in them the previous years--and sometimes I even space on the champs.

rpa
rpa
1/15/2011 3:19:57 PM #

I remember him starting on opening day because I was just livid at the reasoning for him making the team over a right-handed bat off the bench - the Reds needed another "true centerfielder" on the roster.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/15/2011 2:17:12 PM #

I've literally never heard of Randy Milligan. Ruben Sierra? Jon Nunnally? Eduardo Perez?

I got 142 out of 180, and the biggest name I missed was probably Willie Greene.

rpa
rpa
1/15/2011 3:02:00 PM #

I got about the same, 140-150 or something like that.  I forgot Dmitri Young and Rich Aurilia somehow.

How could you forget Randy Milligan?

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/15/2011 3:27:35 PM #

I was 10. If your name didn't rhyme with 'Marry Farkin' I didn't care too much. I don't even know if that guy was white or black. Seriously - I have a blank spot in my brain where Randy Milligan should be.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/15/2011 3:31:37 PM #

That'd be why - he didn't finish the season on the team, meaning I doubt he had a Reds baseball card. I knew there had to be something!

Also, he was black. Good to know.

rpa
rpa
1/15/2011 3:38:45 PM #

It's not like I remembered him as an opening day starter.  I think I had forgotten about him until I saw the name... I mostly remember him as an Oriole.  He wasn't a bad ballplayer for the Orioles.  Kinda a poor man's Sean Casey

One thing I didn't know - dude was a #3 overall pick in 1981.  So there's that.

rpa
rpa
1/15/2011 3:40:53 PM #

So you were a big fan of this guy?

www.baseball-reference.com/.../larkite01.shtml

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/15/2011 4:07:24 PM #

You know it! 1500+ innings in three seasons? Now THAT'S a workhorse!

rpa
rpa
1/15/2011 7:06:06 PM #

I like looking at old pitching staffs

In 1887, the Hartford Dark Blues went 31-27 in 60 games, good for third in the National League.

Terry Larkin started 56 of the 60 games.  Completed 55 of them.  The starting 3B finished the game he didn't start, and started (and completed) two other games.  An outfielder started (and completed) the remaining two games.

So they basically played a season with a one-man pitching staff.  That's a good way to save on payroll.

rpa
rpa
1/15/2011 7:08:09 PM #

Actually, the outfielder that pitched two complete games was also the manager.  Potential cost savings abound!

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/16/2011 10:09:29 AM #

Just a thought on randy milligan, a name I didn't cone up with either. He not only was a high pick but he was player of the year in the international league for the Mets. He was in a lump of baseball cards I kept together for guys with potential.

You should have seen all the could have beens in that stack.

DocProc
DocProc
1/15/2011 6:01:23 PM #

Good news about Soft J from Fay's blog:

Paul Janish heard the rumors before it happened. When the Reds signed veteran shortstop Edgar Renteria, it was widely assumed that it was to be the starter, thus dropping Janish to No. 2 on the depth chart.

So when Dusty Baker and Walt Jocketty called Janish to say that wasn’t the case, it meant a lot.

“It was pretty re-assuring,” Janish said. “Mentally, you can help but wonder. So it was a pretty big deal that they called. I know the job is at least mine to lose.  I’m pretty fired up about being in more than the utility role.”

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/16/2011 11:07:52 AM #

Cardinals have a month to reach a deal w/ Albert, if it ain't done, he's hitting free agency:
sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=6025055

All good relationships begin/continue with ultimatums, right?

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/16/2011 11:11:17 AM #

And the Reds and Votto are in talks to buy out Votto's last 3 arb years, Heyman says likely 3 for 37 if it happens.

Not really news, and doesn't really change anything, but a deal's a deal.

Amy
Amy
1/16/2011 1:07:32 PM #

THIS JUST IN: VOTTO SIGNED FOR 3 YRS, $38 MILL

marksheldon.mlblogs.com/.../...hree-year_deal.html

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/16/2011 1:13:19 PM #

3 years, $38 mil sounds perfectly fair to me.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/16/2011 1:24:17 PM #

Whoa, whoa whoa, hold your horses. He's still got to pass his physical.

Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
Sources: Joey Votto has agreed to terms on a three-year, $38 million deal with the Reds, pending a physical Monday.

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
1/16/2011 1:47:32 PM #

Other then giving the Reds FO cost certianty, and maybe saving them a few million if Votto plays like a crazy guy the next two years, I don't see what this does.  No FA years are included.  Toronto must be very happy with this news.

rpa
rpa
1/16/2011 4:26:04 PM #

Yeah, kind of pointless if they don't buy out a year of FA.  Maybe just the goodwill that it buys with the player to give him the contract, although the only other option to get him down from whatever number he got awarded this year would have been to refuse to offer arb at all and let him go.  So it probably doesn't really cost them that much.

Mary
Mary
1/16/2011 4:35:51 PM #

some further insight into the ramifications of the contract

  BizballMaury  Maury Brown
by redreporter
@
@redreporter This might interest: Salary Arbitration Watch: Inside Joey Votto's 3-year, $38M Deal http://ow.ly/3ELsm

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/16/2011 4:43:46 PM #

Avoiding arbitration is big. Everything I'd read/heard about those hearings is that they can get fairly ugly as the teams point out all the player's flaws in an attempt to save some money.

With a guy like Votto, who's very business minded and a good bet to test free agency, it seems like a good idea to take care of this now instead of risking ugliness over the next three seasons.

I think that's a good idea.

rpa
rpa
1/16/2011 4:49:56 PM #

That's why so few of the cases actually go to a hearing.  Nobody likes it.  Not to mention that it's a roll of the dice for both sides.

The arb system actually works fairly well in that respect - it forces teams and players to compromise in a way that respects the market.  The owners still obviously have all of the leverage, but they also know if they lowball a guy that the arbitrator picks one number or the other... so it keeps the greed in check a bit on both sides.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/16/2011 1:25:31 PM #

BTW, don't know if RPA is around today but I love how sports people on twitter land are already declaring the Seahawks dead after the Bears TD.

It's gonna be like deja vu all over again when they bounce back from an early deficit.

rpa
rpa
1/16/2011 4:24:36 PM #

Well, that would have taken a lot of bouncing back.  What an ugly, ugly game.

And... with the catch of the onside kick, game over.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/16/2011 4:43:33 PM #

I personally love the deal and don't get the commotion it's causing. The guy's the reigning MVP. There's already questions of his long term desire to stay in Cincy.

So you know what you do? You try to make the next 3 years as comfortable and amenable to him as possible. You pay guys. You lock guys that have achieved up to deals that pay them market value. You try to get Votto to believe this is a place that he wants to be. A big part of that will likely be winning and the competitiveness of the team. Another part of that will be the loyalty/you treated me well in the past so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt when we deal in negotiations in the future.

If you wanted to alienate Votto and all but ensure that he doesn't come back in 3 years, go ahead and go year to year w/ him. If there's any guy in this organization that you do whatever you can to take care of right now, it's Joey. He didn't want to give away any FA years, but he was open to getting his arb years out of the way.

That's what the Reds did, rather than acting like a******* and forcing him to either give up a FA year or go year to year. So yeah, I love the deal. They weren't going to do any better, and this is a guy that you want to keep as happy as possible.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/16/2011 4:45:34 PM #

In other words, what I said, just better.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/16/2011 4:46:36 PM #

I like how we posted that 13 seconds apart haha.

rpa
rpa
1/16/2011 4:47:48 PM #

That's why I am saying the only real gain for the Reds in this deal is any goodwill they gain with Votto, and the only potential downside is if he gets hurt or something else happens and he falls of the face of the earth, and they are still on the hook for 2013 when they would have rather let him walk.

Frankly, I don't think goodwill is going to be enough to keep Votto here when he hits FA... but if he was going to leave anyway, the deal doesn't really matter much one way or the other.  Might cost a little extra this year and save a little bit in 2013.  That's it.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/16/2011 7:07:20 PM #

And yeah, I don't think goodwill is enough anyway. They need to win. They need to offer him as much money as anybody else does. And they need to win. Oh yeah and they need to win.
Wouldn't hurt to have guys like Morgan, Casey, Robinson, etc. in his ear either.

What would hurt is going year to year and slow playing this when he was open to going for all three years now, at least that's where I'm sticking. I mean, if Votto's side asked 3 for 42, Jocketty said 3 for 35, and then Votto came back 3 for 39 and Jocketty said that was too much? That would not be good.

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
1/16/2011 7:08:56 PM #

Griz, not sure what the commotion is you're referring to.  I don't see anyone on here criticizing the deal.  I just don't think it really amounts to much.  Your point about showing goodwill to Joey is valid, but in the end probably does not amount to much

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/16/2011 7:14:29 PM #

Other sites, should've been a little clearer. Red reporter seemed to not like it, world of twitter was telling me I should hate it. MLBTR commentators were telling me I shouldn't like it.

I think I made the "commotion" comment after reading RR and then having some 8 year old that knew how to italicize preaching to me on MLBTR about why my stance was so very wrong. As I noted below, pizzy punch cat mood.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/16/2011 4:47:04 PM #

What do you guys think is fair for Voltron and Cueto? 5 years, $40 mil for Johnny and 4 years, $25 mil for Voltron?

Are those too low?

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/16/2011 4:54:08 PM #

Or do you just go one year with Volquez with the injury stuff?

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/16/2011 6:53:20 PM #

I really have no idea. But I didn't want to leave ya hanging.

It's weird b/c either one could finish top 5 in NL Cy Young voting or could completely flame out next year. I think you just have to go year by year, although would be slightly more okay w/ dealing w/ Cueto.

And FWIW, I dunno why I started actually reading/commenting in the comments section on MLBTR about 2 months ago. They make me want to punch cats. And then I usually respond to nonsense and then I'm even more pizzed off b/c I let myself be consumed by said nonsense. Ugh. It's like Fay's blog, just need to make a clean break.

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
1/16/2011 7:10:38 PM #

true, but messing with Ferrariman is kinda fun.  F-in Cardinals fans

VottoLoco1
VottoLoco1
1/16/2011 10:00:19 PM #

It wouldn't take much to get me to punch a cat.  Can't stand the things...

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/16/2011 6:55:17 PM #

Oh and RPA, how do you feel about Pete Carrol's situational management today?

This question was brought on by Bellichek deciding it was time to go for 2. In the third quarter. Very different strategy as compared to what we saw in the early game.

rpa
rpa
1/17/2011 12:19:17 AM #

I feel that situational management really isn't an issue when your team is thoroughly outclassed.

The Seahawks are ready to contend next year - they just need about 3 offensive linemen, a quarterback, two running backs, a wideout, a defensive lineman or two, a linebacker, and maybe another corner.  They are almost there, I tell you... Almost...

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/16/2011 8:13:15 PM #

I good with the Votto deal. If he doesn't want to commit then don't push him. Get rid of the option for arb as Ash and Griz said earlier.

Anyway, I just labored through the top 75 defensive plays on MLB network. Is the most over-rated play in MLB the over the fence catch? There had to be 40 of them in the countdown.

You would think in 130 years the Reds would have a play in the top 75. Not a one.

rpa
rpa
1/17/2011 12:21:03 AM #

Incidentally, I think I would rather see Volquez or Cueto walk before I gave either one of them a deal for more than 3 years.  I'm not a big fan of long-term deals for pitchers to begin with, and with those two flakes I just see too much chance of it ending badly.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/17/2011 9:08:43 AM #

I'm having a difficult time finding a problem with what you said. MLB is littered with bad contracts for pitchers.

Do you think BP knows the Reds are not going to pay him next year?

DocProc
DocProc
1/17/2011 9:02:34 AM #

I would offer NO long-term deal to Volquez--he has too much left to prove.  I'd make a low-ball long-term offer to Cueto (5 years, 28 mil) but wouldn't break the bank--too many unknowns when dealing with pitchers.

SlashX
SlashX
1/17/2011 9:17:35 AM #

IMHO, never ever, ever, ever give a pitcher more than a three year contract.

SlashX
SlashX
1/17/2011 9:17:57 AM #

IMHO, never ever, ever, ever give a pitcher more than a three year contract.

SlashX
SlashX
1/17/2011 9:19:41 AM #

Agree with RPA, never ever, ever, ever give a pitcher more than a three year contract.

SlashX
SlashX
1/17/2011 9:19:58 AM #

Agree with RPA, never ever, ever, ever give a pitcher more than a three year contract.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/17/2011 11:37:15 AM #

Slash...how do you feel about giving pitchers more than a three year deal?

SlashX
SlashX
1/17/2011 12:47:16 PM #

Well, to be perfectly honest, my computer kept telling me there was an error and the comment never displayed.  Didn't mean to be so anal about it.

I'm not real keen on having to try to decipher what I have to type to get a post up.  Aging eyes often have trouble interpreting the two words.  Wouldn't hurt my feelings if this requirement went away.  So if this post shows up multiple times you'll know why.

Mary
Mary
1/17/2011 2:23:42 PM #

to avoid the need to type the captcha, sign in (upper right hand corner of page).  Once you are signed in (and as long as you don't sign out--closing the page it OK for keeping you signed in) you no longer need to type the words and it is MUCH easier to post

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/17/2011 1:20:28 PM #

you shouldn't have to do that anymore...

Someone tell Slash how to make that stop. I have to do it from my phone but not from my laptop.

SlashX
SlashX
1/17/2011 3:12:08 PM #

Thanks Mary.  Never noticed that login before.  Always went straight to the thread.  It's gone now so life is easier.

Mary
Mary
1/17/2011 3:16:48 PM #

hooray!  Now maybe we'll see more of you here

Mary
Mary
1/17/2011 3:58:17 PM #

  johnfayman  John Fay
Deal with Votto is official. He's doing a confidence call shortly. #reds

ah, gotta love these Fayisms.  

Mary
Mary
1/17/2011 4:04:35 PM #

at least this time he seems to realize what he said


johnfayman John Fay
"Conference" call. Automatic spell-fixer. Just saw him at airport. Have a bit of it posted on the blog. #reds

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/17/2011 4:28:03 PM #

Fayman needs a competence call.

RedFaced
RedFaced
1/17/2011 4:44:11 PM #

My first reaction to the Votto extension was a slight disappointment that the Reds were not able to get a 4th year or at least an option for a 4th year out of Votto.  While I do wish that could have been the case I don't feel they over-paid for the 3 years.  I wouldn't be surprised to see Votto continue to improve over those 3 years and if that turns out to be the case then certainly the Reds will feel like they received excellent return for their investment.

I feel that Walt and the Reds shoot their players pretty straight.  There doesn't seem to be a lot of posturing and war-of-words going on in regard to their player contracts.  I think this bodes well for the Reds long-term.  There just appears to be a lot of respect on both sides.  

Now it's up to the Reds to continue building on this club and put together a long string of winning seasons so they can afford the next big Votto contract in 2-3 yrs.  

Amy
Amy
1/17/2011 4:48:17 PM #

Hey, RedFaced, any news on potential upgrades to RO? We want to be at the top of our game when the season starts, you know Smile

RedFaced
RedFaced
1/17/2011 4:52:59 PM #

Well actually I have two different upgrades going on right now.  One is an internal project my development team has been working on (off and on depending on our paying gigs) and the other is an upgrade of the blog system we are currently using.  I should have a test site up soon on the upgrade blog system for some of us to check-out very soon.  I'll let you know when it's ready.  

Amy
Amy
1/17/2011 5:01:58 PM #

Sweet. Thanks!

RedFaced
RedFaced
1/17/2011 4:50:50 PM #

My guess is the next 3 arb cases come together quickly.  I would anticipate a yearly deal for Bray and Volquez because of past injury concerns but a short multi-year deal for Cueto with a team option year.  Like others have stated, there is no reason to lock up pitchers long-term (at least not for smaller market teams).  The Reds can't afford to be stuck with a crappy long-term contract for a pitcher who isn't producing any longer.  Pitchers are far more likely to have shorter careers and fewer productive years than position players.

Volquez may get more than a 1 year but If so it better be at a low salary.  

Amy
Amy
1/17/2011 5:04:37 PM #

This Pujols thing could get unpleasant (that's what she said?)

www.mlbtraderumors.com/.../...ds-are-hesitant.html

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
1/17/2011 5:17:25 PM #

Ha!  We get DonkeyDizzle wise cracks, even when he's not around.  Smile

Mary
Mary
1/17/2011 5:26:02 PM #

we'll have to select a minivan model for his new car purchase this spring and draw him back here

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
1/17/2011 5:29:56 PM #

along the lines of the Votto deal for me. Whatever it takes.Smile

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/17/2011 5:47:09 PM #

Honestly, Cardinals fans deserve this. Self-righteous little punks, if you ask me.

I really like Yankees fans more nowadays, even Cubs fans. Cardinals fans have gotten a little more malicious since losing the division, which was like their birth-right to win or something.

And all the "Albert won't leave he loves us" stuff is annoying. Even know they are saying that Albert's agents really aren't saying this stuff and that none of its true b/c that's not how the Cardinals negotiate. Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/17/2011 7:12:11 PM #

Try living with them.

I don't know anyone who's taking these rumors seriously. Everyone assumes Pujols is a Cardinal for life. Most people think he'll take $150 mil or so for the good of the franchise.

It's a combination of not understanding the going rate for players (typically, Cards fans pay little to no attention to anyone outside of St. Louis) and overplaying the 'best baseball city in America' hand, which is largely nonsense.

Here's hoping he goes to Anaheim.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/17/2011 8:22:26 PM #

Good article and summation from Rosenthal: msn.foxsports.com/.../St-Louis-Cardinals-must-do-everything-to-keep-Albert-Pujols-011711

"As Post-Dispatch columnist Bernie Miklasz points out, only once in Pujols’ 10 years has he ranked among the game’s 25 highest-paid players, according to USA Today.
Pujols agreed to his current seven-year, $100 million deal. He is no position to complain. But then, neither are the Cardinals, who paid him below-market salaries all these years.
No excuses. No ignoring reality.
The Cardinals need Pujols more than Pujols needs the Cardinals."

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/17/2011 8:27:06 PM #

This current situation is almost exactly like the current Votto situation. Votto is going to want the money in free agency. Albert is gonna want the money in FA.
Sure, it'd be nice for the home teams if they took a discount, Albert say 10 for 200, Votto say buying out a FA year or two.
But neither one wants to do it, they are both gonna be seeking full price here when it comes time, at least imo.

What the Reds will have that the Cardinals won't have is that they at least paid Votto like he deserved to be paid for the next 3 years. Pujols might have agreed to that 7 year 100 million dollar deal, but I'm sure he has  been a little pizzed about it over the last few years, seeing as how salaries have risen. Moreover, the fact that the Cardinals haven't made a market value yet on this next deal knowing that they have basically had a steal for the last 7 years can't be very pleasing to Pujols.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/17/2011 9:38:38 PM #

There's one factor almost no one is mentioning: the Cardinals HAVE paid market value and above for players over the last few years -

Matt Holliday: 7 years, $119 mil
Kyle Lohse: 4 years, $41 mil
Chris Carpenter: 5 years, $65 mil
Brad Penny: 1 year, $7.5 mil

Carpenter's seems right on and Holliday, Penny and Lohse were overpayed. They got bargains on Molina and Wainwright (4 years, $15 mil each) but other than that, they've been giving people market value.

If you're Pujols and you see the Cardinals shell out over $230 mil to four other guys on the team, why shouldn't you, as the the best player in baseball, get market value?

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
1/18/2011 6:56:03 AM #

Agreed.  Furthermore, the Holliday contract was puzzling at the time because no other team was seemingly bidding on the olayer, yet STL went with a high $/year figure for a longer period than they likely needed to go in order to gain his services.  In essence, they were bidding against themselves.  So why should Albert not feel that the Cards should not do the same even though he may not score an A-Rod contract in FA because the Yanks and Red Sox are already set at first base.

Besides, big money clubs like the Angels, Cubs, Mariners, Rangers (a growing payroll) are still out there.  Even if those teams will not commit to an extremely long term deal, we have seen numerous examples of players, from Cliff Lee to Lance Berkman and many in between, that have taken larger yearly payments in exchange for fewer guaranteed years.  With their pitching depth in the minors which could save them money, I could see Texas going 6/180 or 7/200.    

btalbert29
btalbert29
1/18/2011 9:53:23 AM #

In my opinion, whoever signs Pujols is going to have to pay huge money this time around no matter what.  He isn't going to sign for below market value because this will be his last huge deal.  Any contract he gets will be multiple years, and by the time his next free agency rolls around he's going to be old and on the decline.  This is the best chance for him to get paid, and if St. Louis wants him, they'll have to fork it over.  

If the Reds win the division again, that's going to influence him too.  Do you want to go to a team that has a chance to win and be successful or do you want to stay with the Cards, who could be a sinking ship.  They seem to be a mess right now, their farm system isn't in great shape so there's not many young guys who will play well for cheap.   Their window could be closing for a few years.  

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/18/2011 10:30:41 AM #

johnfayman John Fay
#Reds have deal with Bray. AP says for $645,000. Nothing yet on Cueto, Volquez.


VottoLoco1
VottoLoco1
1/18/2011 1:01:10 PM #

Interesting read about "the next CarGo."

mlb.mlb.com/.../article.jsp

I sure hope it's Stubbs.  He shows flashes, but rounding him out into a star will require some effort on his part (strikeouts, smart base-running, defense, etc).

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/18/2011 1:15:52 PM #

he has the talent if he can be consistent and stop getting overmatched high and inside. I would never ever let stubbs extend his arms.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/18/2011 1:04:03 PM #

Its final....I'm going back to Goodyear

Can we set up a fund for you guys to send me to spring training? remember, this also must fund me to get a meal from Pizzeria Bianco

DocProc
DocProc
1/18/2011 4:12:54 PM #

When are you going, Champ?

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/18/2011 9:57:29 PM #

i think the wee before you. I am going over st patty's day.

Amy
Amy
1/18/2011 1:25:53 PM #

Interesting article on pitching development--changes the Reds made, etc.

www.baseballamerica.com/.../2611139.html

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/18/2011 2:14:46 PM #

Nice to see Cooper discuss a lot of the things that are discussed here regularly.

RedFaced
RedFaced
1/18/2011 1:40:46 PM #

Just saw the following posted on Fay's Blog, thought I'd pass along:

"Here’s the break down on Joey Votto’s contract, according to the Associated Press:

–$5.5 million salary in 2011, $9.5 million salary in 2012 and $17 million salary in 2013.

–Signing bonus of $6 million. He gets $2.5 million now, $1.5 million in 2012 and $2 million in 2014."

RedFaced
RedFaced
1/18/2011 1:41:55 PM #

not sure if that last bonus payment of $2 mil is a typo and should have read 2013 or if it's really 2014.  

Amy
Amy
1/18/2011 2:45:05 PM #

Ash, you need to submit your tattoo to Better Off Red. And the ZOMBIE Mr. Redlegs is FRIGHTENING. Why would someone want that??

http://ramsey.mlblogs.com/

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/18/2011 5:08:23 PM #

Man - those are all friggin fantastic. Mine's pretty lame in comparison.

I'll do it though!

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/18/2011 5:15:23 PM #

The second one is especially fantastic. I like the Zombie one, but prefer that some things stay sacred Smile

I e-mailed mine to Jamie (along with a redsoctober plug) - we'll see if he posts it!

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
1/18/2011 4:08:19 PM #

Hard to argue with either one of those linked articles. Haven't said that in a while. Are the Reds really getting honest prss that is positive? Wow, I think I like that.  

genewv
genewv
1/18/2011 4:36:03 PM #

More than nice of you guys and gals to keep folks like me updated on all the goings on. Love the way WJ is going about his business, as usual. For a small to mid market team, he is the perfect GM, IMO.

Agree with REDFACE in that I think he approaches all with respect and honesty, which goes a long way towards reaching the final goals of the club within the financial limitations he is working under.

We will eventually lose some guys we don't want to lose, but i think we will be well stocked enough to ride the wave to staying competitive for a playoff spot year in and year out, with number of injuries always being the joker in the deck.

Later

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/18/2011 6:49:56 PM #

Fertility drugs must make your brain loopy. Or Volquez is represented by Waldo, who just wants to go back into hiding.

johnfayman John Fay
#Reds offered Cueto $3 million, he countered at $3.9 million. They offered Volquez $1.3 million, he countered at $1.3 million.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/18/2011 6:59:55 PM #

HA!

You know what, though? Assuming Voltron's counter is less than $2 mil, there's no reason why the Reds shouldn't settle with these guys. It's less than a million bucks - just keep these guys happy.

I'm surprised after the Bruce and Votto contracts both guys didn't ask for a lot more, to be honest.

rpa
rpa
1/18/2011 7:32:03 PM #

Today, I was negotiating some pricing with someone.

They offered $4.00 and I countered with $4.00.

We reached agreement very quickly.

Mary
Mary
1/18/2011 7:39:30 PM #

That appears to be another Fay typo--this is what Fay's blog says:

Here’s the arbitration numbers:

The Reds offered Johnny Cueto $3 million. He countered at $3.9 million. Remember, John Danks, who I mentioned as a comparable, he settled last year for $3.45 million.

The Reds offered Edinson Volquez $1.3 million. He countered at $2 million.

My guess is both cases are settled before they come close to a hearing.

DocProc
DocProc
1/18/2011 7:59:26 PM #

Got a flyer from Ed Smith Stadium yesterday, trying to get me to buy Orioles tickets for Spring Training (I'm on their mailing list from the good ol' days).  It still BURNS ME UP that all these renovations are taking place after we're gone.  That city/county really screwed the Reds.

www.ballparkdigest.com/.../os-ed-smith-stadium-renovations-right-on-schedule

Amy
Amy
1/18/2011 8:26:15 PM #

Not so "tired old" any more, eh? Jamie Ramsey had some pics up on his blog recently of the renovations as well.

genewv
genewv
1/18/2011 9:27:45 PM #

Mary, Would seem to me Cueto scattering 3 million brain fragments on the mound would be much preferable to him scattering 3.9 million brain fragments.

3.9 million  would be much more difficult for the pen to clean up.  

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/18/2011 10:42:40 PM #

Remember back in the day on the Post board that John Allen Jr. Is there something wrong with me?

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/18/2011 10:44:21 PM #

he was there right? that guy just isn't right. I always used to think he was a special person

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/18/2011 11:02:09 PM #

Yes. And yes.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/18/2011 11:06:22 PM #

If he's the same guy, he suggested a Yonder Alonso/Armando Galarraga trade at Fay's blog. I mean... uh... I don't have to make a joke here, do I? I can just let it go and it serves as a joke itself, right?

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/18/2011 11:23:49 PM #

That comment is what prompted my comment....I also enjoy how he ended the word million with "s".

Entertaining none the less

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/19/2011 1:14:06 AM #

just curious...anyone else having trouble with the WWL's site?

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/19/2011 11:37:38 AM #

cincinnati.com/.../

This article is probably the single best piece of journalism put out by the Fayman in the last 20 minutes.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/19/2011 11:40:35 AM #

I mean the best part of the article is the baseball insider saying the Reds can't pay a guy 20 mil a year......after Fay states they are paying Votto 19 mil in 2013. And then Fay states it like it's some kind of fact.

That extra 1 mil is rough, yo.

Amy
Amy
1/19/2011 1:44:36 PM #

That's pretty darn funny.

RedFaced
RedFaced
1/19/2011 2:51:06 PM #

I was thinking the same when I read it.

As low as the Volquez counter is perhaps you try him for 2-3 years, roll of the dice I know.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/19/2011 3:39:34 PM #

I'm with you. Why not go for, say, 3 years, $11 mil or 4 years $15 mil? Even if he's your fourth starter, that's a good price for him and gives him a measure of security.

I say go for it.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/19/2011 3:44:26 PM #

Well, the counter is low b/c if they do go to arb the arbitrator picks the high # asked for by the player or the low # asked for by the team. There is no middle ground.

Thus, agents/players are confined to asking for what they believe is a reasonable amount, and ultimately hoping the two sides settle somewhere in the middle.

In the instant case, if they go to arb I think Volquez wins. But I don't believe Volquez and his agent would be very interested in a multi year deal at this point, at least not at a price range that the Reds would be amenable to.

RedFaced
RedFaced
1/19/2011 4:20:52 PM #

It will certainly be interesting to see if the Reds give either guy multiple years.  They could easily settle both cases then work out an ext during the Spring.  

VottoLoco1
VottoLoco1
1/19/2011 4:47:20 PM #

I'd like to see Volquez really get his head in the game and focus on building his value this year.  Does he have the stuff?  Oh yeah, we've all seen it.  But if you give 3 years right now when he hasn't done anything for a couple seasons, I think you aren't going to see the absolute best out of him in 2011.

RedFaced
RedFaced
1/19/2011 10:50:46 PM #

Excellent point

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/19/2011 4:33:13 PM #

joeposnanski.si.com/.../

Interesting article from Poz. The main point seems to be that as we re-evaluate what's important in baseball (i.e. getting on base as opposed to 'getting hits'), we should re-evaluate how we perceive certain players. In other words, guys like Olerud, Martinez and Larkin 'walked too much,' hurting their batting average (which everyone looks at) and somewhat tainting their careers, even though we know those players were actually helping the team immensely.

Something to think about, and if nothing else, shows that perhaps the guys above are all HOF players.

rpa
rpa
1/19/2011 5:54:05 PM #

I wouldn't give Volquez 3 yrs for 10 mil right now.

Pay him 1.5 for next year and see if he learns how to pitch.  His delivery looked a lot better last year, I am waiting to see if he can keep that up now that his arm strength should be back.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
1/19/2011 6:24:52 PM #

I might sound crazy (imagine that Smile )but I would make the 3 year offer to Volquez at 10 mil and a similar offer to Cueto. 3 mil is a lot to some schlep like me, but for a decent 3-4 starter that is very lowball. If only 1 of them works out, you still have a #3 guy for 6 mil or so a year. Still a decent deal from the team's perspective. If one of them continues to improve, you migh get charged with highway robbery.  

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
1/19/2011 6:58:52 PM #

Overheard at the whitehouse press pool, today:
- joint presser featuring both presidents today.
- I heard! Who's on first?
- that's right
- no! I'm asking "who's on first?"
- exactly!
- Dohhh! who is the president who's speakin first?
- That's right! Hu is he president who's speaking first!
- Alright, who's on second?
- No, he's on first.
-Who?
-Yes!
...........

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
1/19/2011 8:39:47 PM #

HAHAHA

rpa
rpa
1/19/2011 9:49:30 PM #

Hu's on first?

The guy who won't let his currency float?


/was: Re: Free Tibet, Free James Brown, Free alignment with purchase of 4 new tires

RedFaced
RedFaced
1/20/2011 10:09:19 AM #

27 days until Pitchers and Catchers Report!!

Will Chris Heisey become this year's Paul Janish?

RedFaced
RedFaced
1/20/2011 10:44:44 AM #

Of course that's assuming Paul Janish won't be this year's Paul Janish.  

DocProc
DocProc
1/20/2011 11:21:27 AM #

NKU just closed because of snow.  I'm glad to have the day off, but my first thought was, "Is it Spring Training yet?"

VottoLoco1
VottoLoco1
1/20/2011 1:11:21 PM #

redlegnation.com/.../

So, when you live in a city that has a team that hasn't seen serious competition from division rivals in a few years, do you just take it for granted that your team will be perennially good, regardless of the glaring weaknesses that are continually aggravated by incompetent management?  I just don't see St Louis posing much of a threat this season.  My forecast for the division is:

1. Reds
2. Brewers
3. Astros
4. Cardinals
5. Cubs
6. Pirates

But I also think that the NLC will be the tightest division in baseball in 2011.  There are a lot of wild cards, and I think it will be an exciting season.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/20/2011 1:15:42 PM #

I wonder if anyone realized the Reds were fine last year when Rolen fell off a cliff in the second half b/c Bruce and Stubbs figured it out?

Mary
Mary
1/20/2011 1:19:10 PM #

and Travis Wood became the left-handed version of Mike Leake in the second half

VottoLoco1
VottoLoco1
1/20/2011 2:02:57 PM #

Who do you think has a more potent 1-2 top of the rotation?  STL with Carp and Wainwright or Milwaukee with Greinke and Marcum?  STL's dynamic duo certainly has a longer resume, but I think Greinke and Marcum will show them up this year (assuming STL's defense falls off like I hope).

btalbert29
btalbert29
1/20/2011 2:30:58 PM #

I'm going to predict it now, the top of those rotations will be 2nd and 3rd best in the division.  Volquez and Cueto are going to be tops.

Amy
Amy
1/20/2011 2:57:37 PM #

I like it!!

Amy
Amy
1/20/2011 6:25:54 PM #

Cueto extended-- 4yrs, 27mill

www.mlbtraderumors.com/.../...-year-extension.html

Amy
Amy
1/20/2011 6:28:04 PM #

Story from ESPNdeportes:

espndeportes.espn.go.com/.../story

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/20/2011 6:34:25 PM #

That sounds fair to me, I guess.

Looks like the Reds are buying themselves a 3-4 year window to win everything. I can't imagine they'll be able to keep these guys past that with the way these extensions are looking.

Any guesses as to the price for Volquez now?

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/20/2011 6:36:40 PM #

Cardinal fans are the best. First three comments on Facebook, all from St. Louis supporters:

'Classless.'

'Only player in baseball I wish would be out of baseball. If you end someone else's career, you shouldn't be allowed to stay in the game.'

'Kung Fu kicking champion.'

Fantastic.

rpa
rpa
1/20/2011 9:07:50 PM #

I don't really like that contract for Cueto.  But, yeah, looks like the window is officially 2011-2014.  Here's hoping for a World Series in that span.

RedFaced
RedFaced
1/20/2011 9:27:35 PM #

I have to wonder about the amount also.  I thought a three year deal in the 12-15MM mark might get it done.  Didn't expect $27MM.  Of course if he turns out to be the real deal in the next 4 years it will look like a steal but if he burns out it's going to suck for the Reds those last two years.  If he stays where he is I guess it's an even deal so from that standpoint I suppose we can't complain.  

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
1/21/2011 7:07:17 AM #

Like someone pointed out on mlbtraderumors.com (one of the few logical posters on there), the Cueto contract is essentially a 3/5/7 contract with one FA year bought out at 12.  Considering 12/year is what Bronson is getting, it seems to be a pretty decent price for a front of the rotation starter.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/20/2011 9:49:10 PM #

Here's to making a solid run at it for the next few seasons. I think its great for the Red's to know what their players will cost when it comes time to add the missing piece if we find ours selves in the right position at the right time. That who cost certainty thing they keep throwing around...

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/20/2011 9:55:39 PM #

2011 is the year to win the division and truly bring back the crowds to Cincy. 2012/2013 are going to be the great years, if 2011 works as planned and the money flows in next year. (They are already finding new ways to get at people to get tickets, I bought some on stub hub last year, got an email from the Reds today asking that since I'd bought some on stub hub if I'd like to buy a season ticket package.)

This approach Walt is taking now seems much more similar to what the Phillies did in the 06/07/08 years than anything Walt did w/ the Cardinals. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks?

Mary
Mary
1/20/2011 9:50:55 PM #

I have deliberately stayed away from reading any other Reds board since the season ended, but all these $$$ contracts the Reds are signing should shut some of the jerks up who complain that the payroll is not high enough--or has it?  I just hope the payroll is high enough with the right contracts to become self-sustaining at even higher values by bringing a winner to GABP, and with that, large crowds and lots of season ticket holders.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/20/2011 9:52:41 PM #

time for the fans to put up or shut up...thats for sure. There should be an exciting product on the field this season and beyond.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/20/2011 9:51:21 PM #

RF, when you begin the beta test of the upgrades to the site we need to see the Nats/Reds cap that was designed.

Even with no leatherpants in town the Nats continue the ex red parade adding Coffey and now JHJ

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/20/2011 10:20:27 PM #

I really don't care what the money is on these extensions. Obviously, Walt and Bob know what they're doing and planning on financially, and I trust them.

If the Reds win, everything is okay, and they have a core in place to do just that for the next five years. I'm not going to complain about the money.

btalbert29
btalbert29
1/21/2011 9:36:35 AM #

If the Reds can have a season similar to or better than last year, we will see a bump in attendance for sure, but maybe even more importantly the TV ratings will be high again.  Having back to back seasons with monster ratings will really help the reds bring in a significant higher amount of revenue.  Add that to the increased revenue from more butts in seats and maybe just maybe you can resign Votto when he contract is up.

genewv
genewv
1/21/2011 11:09:17 AM #

Hey RO, guys/gals,

I have been reading all your stuff, personal breakdowns, points of view, etc., on all that BC and WJ are doing in the contract areas.

Appreciated, as always.

I, too, trust they know exactly what they are doing. There is never a certainty with a pitcher ( one pitch and it could be over ), but sometimes you just have to take a little leap of faith, gamble a little. You don't really gamble unless there is a big possible bonanza at the end--and we all know that is a real possibility with this team. I think that is what they are doing here, and I totally agree with their approach.

Keep the info coming.

I gotta keep all the WVU boards sane for a little while longer.

RedFaced
RedFaced
1/21/2011 12:26:06 PM #

RedFaced

I've been thinking about the Cueto deal a little more and as a result I'm liking it more.  In Cueto we have the ace of the staff we keep asking for.  I mean really the kid had a 3.64 ERA last year and if it were not for the awful game in his second to last start against the Brewers his ERA would have been more like 3.35.  The kid has improved in each of his 3 seasons.  He's started 31, 30 and 31 games in those three seasons.  His BB/9, H/9, HR/9 and WHIP has dropped each year.  And while his SO/9 is lower now than it was three years ago his SO/BB has actually increased = a much smarter pitcher.  Oh and he's only 24 soon to be 25.  He also had the bullpen blow saves in like 6 of his games last year (I don't recall the exact number, it may have been even higher).  So while he won 12 games he should have easily had 15+ wins.  And he had a pretty bad April getting only one win in 5 starts.  He's never gone under the knife and he isn't on Verducci's list nor will he ever be.  At 185.2 IP last year he threw 14.1 more innings than the year before.

With another year of working under Bryan Price, I would not be surprised to see this from Cueto in 2011:

Reds opening day starter
15-17 wins
ERA around 3.00
200 IP
1.1 WHIP
33 starts
2 post-season wins

If you can get that then $27MM for 4 years will look like a bargain real fast.

RedFaced
RedFaced
1/21/2011 12:26:59 PM #

Oh and one more thing I failed to mention, the Cardinals hate him.  That's worth something in my book.

Mary
Mary
1/21/2011 12:42:29 PM #

oh--definitely a plus!

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/21/2011 1:29:05 PM #

that's worth a mil or two by itself

genewv
genewv
1/21/2011 2:25:14 PM #

RF,

Totally agree. I might point out, the guy, even when not performing well, always competes. When brain fragments have been all over the mound, he still fights. I like that. Same can be said of most of our staff. I give Price, and might I say, Bronson a lot of credit for development in this area. Fighters can sometimes survive on not very much stuff on a given day, keep you in a game when they are not at their best, thus, allowing you to pick up a game here or there that a lesser competitor would not do because they quit--mentally. As much as i have complained about Cueto at times, he has always competed.

RedFaced
RedFaced
1/21/2011 2:27:34 PM #

By the way, I still have the Central clinching game on DVR and it was almost as awesome to watch in January as it was to watch live.  Bruce's HR still gave me goose bumps.  I just wished I had it in HD.  Perhaps I can get it in HD when FSO replays it on March 3rd.  

Amy
Amy
1/21/2011 2:51:18 PM #

Classic Rewind!! What else are they showing? Is there a list?

Redwakeup
Redwakeup
1/21/2011 3:20:32 PM #

If you had MLB 2010 on you computer you can still see 2010 games. I actually watched the game against the Padres from Sept 26th yesterday (nice 12-2 victory). I always like to rewatch games like that.

Amy
Amy
1/21/2011 3:24:07 PM #

Saw that one in person Smile

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
1/21/2011 2:56:54 PM #

As a frame of reference on the Cueto deal, I looked for someone to compare him to. How about Joe Blanton? Joe's career earnie is 4.30 and Cueto's is 4.27. Last year, Joe was a 4.82 ERA guy while Cueto posted a 3.65. Cueto's contract, when evenly distributed, is for 6.75 mil and Joe got 7 mil last year. Based on that, I'd buy Walt a nice cigar and light it for him. Sounds good to me.

Amy
Amy
1/21/2011 3:43:23 PM #

It's National Squirrel Appreciation Day! I kid you not!

www.nwf.org/.../Squirrel-Day-Activities.aspx

Mary
Mary
1/21/2011 3:54:15 PM #

I can't imagine how I missed knowing that--I'll have to put out some walnuts today to go along with the peanuts and sunflower seeds I regularly feed the little beggars

Redwakeup
Redwakeup
1/21/2011 7:49:08 PM #

My two Jack Russell Terriers love squirrels. Probably not in the way you do, Mary. Shiloh and Bandit tend to encourage the neighborhood squirrels to get their cardio in.

genewv
genewv
1/21/2011 3:54:15 PM #

I'll bet you are nuts! No such thing.

My bet is you are even a Red's fan--they are all nuts--some even follow the Bengals!

Amy
Amy
1/21/2011 5:33:50 PM #

I'm not that nuts. Pretty much a one-sport girl, although I did develop a strange fascination with curling during the last Winter Olympics.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
1/23/2011 11:11:37 AM #

I developed a strange fascination for some of the women curlers,especially that one Canadian mom. Yeah Baby!

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/21/2011 3:47:58 PM #

Hey guys, once that Volquez deal gets done, how bout a new thread 'grading' the Reds offseason moves? Anyone down for that? Anyone want to do it (if not, I can)?

Mary
Mary
1/21/2011 4:26:41 PM #

sounds like a good idea to me (as long as I am not the one asked to write it, that is)

Amy
Amy
1/21/2011 5:35:33 PM #

Great idea. Look forward to hearing your grades (or someone else's, if we get a volunteer).

Redwakeup
Redwakeup
1/21/2011 7:56:38 PM #

I started working on one last weekend, but work has taken all of my spare time since I began it. No chance of continuing it in the next 10 days. Just go three big assignments, all having to be done ASAP.

I think that it would be good though to examine what changes have occurred with each of the NL Central teams, and focus on reasons why some important players overachieve while others under achieve. For example, Prince Fielder's 2010 was bad, yet he tends to have bad years (even years) and then does well the next year (odd years). Is that due to his body style (I know how hard that body style is to keep in shape), or is it the lack of support of players to protect him in the lineup to get better pitches.

I think it would be a good topic, I just have no time to write it.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/21/2011 9:05:42 PM #

No biggie - I can get to it as soon as Volquez signs.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/24/2011 3:32:13 PM #

so is someone working on something? If we need something in the next day or two I could throw something together.

500 is a long scroll down.

Mary
Mary
1/24/2011 3:37:56 PM #

500 is a long scroll down.

that it is--which is why I always look at the recent posts to the right of the screen and click on the first one I see that I have not read and am taken directly to  it.

I think AAT is waiting for Voltron to make up his mind about signing his contract, which may drag on (or end in an hour).  If you would like to do something more immediately, feel free to send it out to starters@redsoctober.com

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/24/2011 3:57:17 PM #

Maybe he'll let me know where he stands on it. If he's not working on something I can find some time tonight to put something up

RedFaced
RedFaced
1/21/2011 5:06:01 PM #

Amy, Fay has a list of Classic Rewind games FSO will be showing. All from the 2010 season btw.

Here's the link:  cincinnati.com/.../

Amy
Amy
1/21/2011 5:32:57 PM #

Sweet, thanks.

RedFaced
RedFaced
1/21/2011 5:07:02 PM #

Fay also posted a link to this SI article about breakout players to watch in 2011.  Guess who leads the list?

sportsillustrated.cnn.com/.../index.html

Mary
Mary
1/21/2011 5:22:23 PM #

I agree with the thought--I think Bruce will be in the MVP running in 2011.  I also think Drew Stubbs will vastly improve.  It is the offseason--I MUST dream of world championships for the next few years

RedFaced
RedFaced
1/21/2011 7:28:07 PM #

OH NO!!!!  Time to re-evaluate the Cardinals.  They just signed Nick Punto!!!

Amy
Amy
1/21/2011 8:09:32 PM #

BRUUUUUUUCE.

news.cincinnati.com/.../Doc-Bruce-shows-generosity

DocProc
DocProc
1/21/2011 8:17:45 PM #

Very cool.

And here was a surprise in that article:

"Who would you guess leads the current Reds in giving locally?

If you said Francisco Cordero, drop a coin into your own cup. Charley Frank, the director of the Reds Community Fund, says Coco donates “well into the six figures’’ to local causes."

I never think of Coco being connected to Cinci.  He just went up a few notches.  

But he still makes my stomach hurt in the 9th inning.  Smile

rpa
rpa
1/22/2011 12:08:21 AM #

I've got to meet Bruce at a couple of events.  He really seems like a genuinely nice guy, as much as you can tell from saying hello to someone, shaking their hand, congratulating them the day after a monster throw to peg a guy at third base, whatever.  Looks like I was right about that one.

I loved one of the quotes in there:

“It’s not a responsibility. It’s a moral obligation,’’ Bruce said. “The community takes you in. They make or break you. These people only want us to be successful.’


(By the way, I think the article itself is more proof for something I have always thought - Paul Daugherty wishes he was Mitch Albom.  Guh.  That article is a bunch of sentimental crap, and try reading it a couple of times and actually try to follow it.  It's garbled nonsense.  Kinda like reading something written by Mitch Albom.)

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/22/2011 12:15:01 AM #

Dude I'm completely perplexed by the article. I get Bruce is doing nice things. But I have no idea for whom. I mean this is the first freaking paragraph of the article:

"CINCINNATI -- Jay Bruce calls himself “a product of generosity,’’ so he’s giving the Reds $400,000. It’s something he has wanted to do since he was a kid selling candy door to door, to pay for his team’s Little League uniforms. It’s been in his head since the scout who signed him in 2005 offered advice Bruce embraced."

I have no idea what this means. Is he paying for the Reds little league uniforms? Their big league uniforms? Does this have nothing to do w/ uniforms? By Reds does he mean the Reds Community Fund?

I was perplexed when I read it a few hours ago, still perplexed now.

rpa
rpa
1/22/2011 12:19:12 AM #

It's like Daugherty knows there's a coherent story in there somewhere, but he's trying to be so dramatic that he's not answering some questions...

1) I still don't know if this field is being built in Beaumont or in Cincinnati.  Not that it matters, but seriously, where?

2) What's with the dancing thing?

3) I like the factoid about Cordero.  How, exactly, is that relevant?

etc, etc.

It's nice to tell a story like this.  But part of telling a story is that you can at least, you know, TELL WHAT THE STORY IS.

rpa
rpa
1/22/2011 12:21:14 AM #

Maybe I am being to harsh and he just has a bad editor.  But, you know, Daugherty is probably my least favorite sportswriter ever.  

FJM still said it best:  "If you could fart into a kind of microprocessing funnel, and the funnel poured the fart into a computer, which converted the fart into words, this is what it would look like."

rpa
rpa
1/22/2011 12:25:04 AM #

And I feel obligated, again, to point out that Daugherty once said the Reds should trade Votto and Bailey for... the same guy that makes Cueto's contract look sensible, Joe Blanton.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/22/2011 12:31:49 AM #

I feel like I've read a ton of P-Doc's stuff, and I don't think I've ever been like, "man, that's a well written article."

I really don't get how out of all the possible journalists out there he became famous and got an SI gig. Bob Kravitz, Indy Star sports editorial dude, is/was tremendous. He gets some national recognition but not as much.

Plus, Doc's little blog runs like a poor man's Colin Cowherd show. He says a bunch of things that are likely to stir up conversation. I really hope he doesn't believe half the things he says.

rpa
rpa
1/22/2011 12:38:37 AM #

I remember when Cincinnati had decent sports talk hosts.  Not always good or fair or sensible (I'm looking at you, Andy Furman) but you always had something either good or entertaining to listen to.

Then Daugherty showed up doing "Extra Innings".  Spent most of his time complaining about having to do the show.  Spouted the same ill-informed crap that he writes.  Complained some more about the drudgery of getting paid to talk about baseball for an hour or two on the radio.

He was rewarded with what used to be a plum gig - the 6-9 slot on a big radio station.  At which point he continued to do the same crap and get paid a bundle for it.

He still wants that Mitch Albom money.  He should have spent more time buddying up to Oprah instead of Dusty.

So he lost that gig because he was unlistenable, yet turns around and gets picked up by SI.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present Chauncey Gardiner.

(bonus points for whomever gets this reference)

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
1/21/2011 8:15:07 PM #

If Blue Jays GM Alex Anthopoulos just traded Vernon Wells to Anaheim without send cash in the deal, can we just give him the 2011 front office executive of the year award right now?  Hey, maybe they would be interesting in Mr. Pujols next year?  

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/21/2011 9:52:57 PM #

Drugs are bad, m'kay?

I have no idea what the Angels believe they are getting out of this.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/21/2011 9:57:47 PM #

Imagine what this 86 million would be worth had it been held on to and offered as part of the Pujols package?

86 million
1 year Pujols>4 years Wells.

rpa
rpa
1/21/2011 11:59:46 PM #

I think I have to second something Gene said about Cueto (and maybe a little bit of a reason for me to feel a bit better about that contact) is that he really is a competitor.  I wish he was a little smarter (maybe it will come with age, maybe not... seems like some guys eventually "get it" and if Cueto does he could be a bargain) but I do feel like he's going to go out there both guns blazing every time.  Sometimes he should maybe dial it back a bit, if anything.

I wish he was?  I wish he were?  I never can get the subjunctive thing right.  Especially after a 16 hour day.

Had a chat with my boss today - told him that he'd better have some help for me in place by Opening Day, because I won't be able to work 8-midnight or whatever I've been doing this winter once baseball starts up again.  Heh.  Dude is a Royals fan, so he doesn't really remember what baseball is like anyways.

As for that Jays-Angels trade... well, supposedly it's Napoli and Rivera for Wells.  I guess if you have money to burn, OK.  And the Angels do, I mean they tried to sign every big free agent this off-season and whiffed on all of them.

I know the Angels wanted to move Napoli, and he's a so-so catcher.  But if he plays every day by doing some duty at 1B and DH, I think he could hit 40 HR playing half of his games in that dome.  Maybe more.  Guy is a pure slugger.  Just give up on the catching thing.  I know if my fantasy league didn't penalize strikeouts (the K-BB category we use is fun...) he'd be on top of my draft list.  He'll be a monster if the Jays use him correctly.

Rivera is due way too much money next year, so it isn't like the Jays are not taking a bad contract back.  But that monstrosity that Ricciardi signed Wells to... ah, it's the gift that keeps on giving.  I suppose it was a crazy time when it was signed - I think it was the same winter when the Cubs signed Soriano and the Giants signed Zito.  So in that light, the contract doesn't look quite as stupid.  The funny thing is that Wells looked a lot better last year (well, until you look at that road/home split and his weird inability to hit lefties.  Seriously, check it out) and who knows?  Maybe the Angels are stupid like a fox here... but to me it smacks of desperation, wanting to get a big name because they couldn't get Crawford.

rpa
rpa
1/22/2011 12:43:36 AM #

I am done complaining about Paul Daugherty.  I think I am going to enjoy a glass of my favorite cheap Tempranillo and listen to Social Distortion.  That sounds good.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/22/2011 1:23:56 AM #

This is being a fan in 2011:

The Angels just made a fantastic baseball move - they traded a problem player with a bad attitude and no place to play (Napoli) and a left fielder they don't want for a center fielder who was average defensively and hit 31 homers last year.

But because being a baseball fan in 2011 is as much about knowing salaries as it is watching games, it's being called the 'worst trade of all time' and a 'fireable offense' on Fangraphs.

I'm going to touch on this a bit in the next thread start, but at a certain point, shouldn't we as fans just want the best players on the field and not worry about what the front office is spending? The 2011 Angels just got better - who cares if the money is outrageous? Let the billionaires spend as they please (especially in a market like LA).

If I'm an Angels fan, today I'm happy.

rpa
rpa
1/22/2011 10:02:34 AM #

Well, that's why I said I guess it's OK if you have money to burn.  I still think it's desperation to show their fans that they made a big splash in the offseason.  I don't really like deals like that.

One that immediately comes to mind is when the Reds signed Eric Milton.  He had a career ERA of like 5.00, but the Reds really wanted to show their fan base that they were doing something to improve an awful pitching staff.

I suppose the difference here is that Arte Moreno can afford it.  I guess it's hard for fans of the other 25 or so teams that couldn't afford it to get why anyone would make that trade.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/22/2011 11:01:31 AM #

I dunno, at some point w/ the money you have to accept that 81 million over 4 years could be spent in much, much better ways.

Vernon is one year removed from back to back terrible years, and has been pointed out he can't hit lefties, and the Angels were 4th worst in MLB at hitting lefties last year. It's not really a great trade imo talent wise, horrible trade when you consider what else they can do w/ the money.

I mean even if they shoot up to Yankee payroll territory next year, Vernon Wells still will take up 1/10th of their budget. That ain't good.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/22/2011 2:05:44 PM #

Well, Napoli simply didn't fit. He's a terrible catcher who can hit or a DH/1B who hit .238 and had a sub .800 OPS. Oh, and he spent all of last season butting heads with Mike Soscia and basically disrupting the clubhouse. And Rivera, a.) Has a Griffey like injury history and had a Janish like season at the plate in 2010.

Sure, this takes up money. But if you've been following the season, they've had money to burn, and no one - not Crawford, not Beltre, not Soriano - wanted it. So what you and I think they can do with the money is irrelevant if no one takes it.

The Angels can afford this, it fills a hole (they've been looking for an outfielder), and it gets rid of a problem. And again - why do we all worry about the monetary aspect of things? From a pure baseball standpoint, it's not a question of is it a win, but rather, how big of a win is it?

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/22/2011 3:52:02 PM #

Well, I've gotta say about 90% of the time I'm w/ you on this type of argument. I agree that people have been taking the WAR a bit far, I mean for example I have no problem w/ what the Yankees paid Rafeal Soriano, even if he is a RP. They're the Yankees.

On the flip side here, I just think releasing Napoli and Rivera, and just overpaying Beltre or Crawford like the Nats did w/ Werth would have been a better move.

The problem is the Angels are stubborn. They have refused to give out long term deals, and view them as a bad investment. Thus, Crawford becomes a member of the Red Sox, Beltre a Ranger, b/c of the years involved on the deal.
I don't see their logic behind viewing Wells at 70 mil basically for 4 years as a good investment, while viewing Beltre at 6 years 110 million (he signed for 6 and 96) would be a bad investment.

If you're going to overpay, overpay for talent. Wells is a below average defender, put up a .743 (below league average OPS) from 2007-2009, and hit .265/.317/.426 over those three years. Thus, my problem isn't mainly that the Angels are paying him, it's that he is a below league average OF. If he was even a moderately above average MLB player like Rios was when the White Sox did what they did I'd have no problem w/ it.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/22/2011 4:41:24 PM #

Regardless of the specifics, I think my larger point is that baseball talk has turned into a discussion of economics, and that's lame. Over on Fangraphs, in the middle of the write up on this trade, someone takes a shot at Brian Sabean who just put together the REIGNING WORLD SERIES CHAMPS. I think the guy should be held in slightly higher regard than a guy who just pulled off a good financial decision.

We're at the point where actual baseball performance takes a back seat to theoretical economics, and I think that sucks. If you don't like the deal from a baseball perspective, awesome - those are the conversations I want to have.

rpa
rpa
1/22/2011 6:24:58 PM #

Unfortunately, economics are the driving force in the game.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/22/2011 7:29:12 PM #

I get that, but trying to win should trump it, and the example with the GMs is a perfect example. The Toronto guy (whose team hasn't been in the playoffsi n a decade) is revered while the guys whose team just won it all is mocked. That's insane.

rpa
rpa
1/22/2011 11:13:40 PM #

I don't think it's fair to bash Sabean, he put together a winner, somehow.

I also don't think it's fair to say Anthopoulos's (man, I think I spelled that right) team hasn't been in the playoffs for a decade when he just got the job a year ago.  And, also, the Jays are in the same division as the Red Sox and the Yanks.  Oops... there's that economics thing again.

The Jays probably could have won a couple of division titles playing in the AL West in the 00s.  Or maybe not, they get a lot of money out of those home games against the Sox and especially the Yankees.

DocProc
DocProc
1/22/2011 8:35:25 AM #

Must weigh in with RPA and Grizz and say that I found Daughherty's column hard to follow, too.  I read it again in the paper this morning, and you're right about all its holes and meandering.

But sorry, I really like Mitch Albom, beginning with all the years I read his columns in Detroit.

And Chauncey Gardiner is from Being There--one of my faves.  And yes, I see the connection.

rpa
rpa
1/22/2011 9:53:16 AM #

I suppose part of my opinion of Albom is from the fact that by the time I got to Detroit, he was already somewhat famous and was going through a stage of his career where he was kind of resting on that.  They kept him around as a sportswriter, but he always seemed to think he was bigger than sports and so most of his writing was overblown nonsense and some kind of search for his next emotional, heartstring-tugging bestseller.  Guy just always got on my nerves.  Which means I am petty because he actually seems like a decent guy, but I find reasons not to like people, I guess.


Being There is a great movie, of course.  I had kind of forgotten about that movie until recently... one of my co-workers was describing someone we work with who, well, we're just baffled at how the guy has managed to hold down a job his whole life, let alone have the career he has had.  The guy just leads this charmed existence, he screws up everything he touches and yet somehow everyone looks at his work and thinks he was trying to do something brilliant that someone else screwed up.

So we've taken to calling him Chauncey.  And the best part is that he has no idea why.  And he's asked.  And we won't tell him.  But I did find a remote control for a TV in the break room one day and walk up to him while he was talking and try to mute him.  Didn't work.

DocProc
DocProc
1/22/2011 10:47:41 AM #

Well, I'll unabashedly go on record as a big fan of Albom's.  I loved his sports columns in Detroit, his contributions to various TV sports talk shows, and his book Tuesdays With Morrie (but maybe the last one is because I'm a teacher and the book was given to me by one of my favorite students).

Yes, Albom has probably overextended himself and gone schmaltzy, and he's worn out his welcome with some--but he's still okay by me.

Dawginnaples
Dawginnaples
1/22/2011 9:41:01 AM #

ManRan and Damon together again? I may have to get some spring training tickets for Stone Crabs stadium just to see Manny take BP. Does this get the Rays back into the running in th AL East?

rpa
rpa
1/22/2011 10:06:48 AM #

I don't know if it gets them back into the running, but if both of those are one-year deals, I can't see how it hurts them.   I think going into this they had Upton and Zobrist and a bunch of question marks, between Damon and Ramirez they probably have a decent LF option most nights.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/22/2011 11:02:51 AM #

What they did w/ Garza and those 2 is the polar opposite of what Arte Moreno did last night. Pure genius down there in Tampa. Makes it look so easy.

rpa
rpa
1/22/2011 1:02:01 PM #

Like Champ mentioned, they have approximately 68 first round draft picks this year, too.  And their payroll has to be $20 mil less than last year.

That team is going to be an unstoppable force in 4 or 5 years.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/22/2011 2:32:19 PM #

I said something like that. Those compensatory picks will be nice. They don't draft high like usual but they get to take risks in the 1st and 2nd rounds. Sinking cash into player development and scouting is the key for teams like the rays and reds.

If you hit big and lose key FA you have to reload with the picks awarded and keep the pipeline going so you can keep making mini runs every 3 to 5 years

rpa
rpa
1/22/2011 4:28:05 PM #

Yep - the cash they are saving this year will have to be used for signing bonuses and will allow them to take on some "unsignable" guys that fall to the 2nd half of the first round/supplemental round, etc.

Thing is, I think they're still going to field a decent team while rebuilding.

rpa
rpa
1/22/2011 10:46:58 AM #

It is cold here.  Apparently it is in Detroit, too.

sports.yahoo.com/.../Photo-The-most-depressing-photo-for-a-baseball-

I like Comerica.  Great park.


Also, I was reminded of a great moment in Vernon Wells history - seattletimes.nwsource.com/.../...02365_chat11.html

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/22/2011 1:09:40 PM #

I love what the Rays did yesterday. Madden might be the right guy for Manny on a one year deal. Damon is an Orlando guy who has wanted to play close to his off season home.

This could allow Zobrist to move into the infield to play 1st or 2B. Not sure the rays are sold on Dan Johnson at 1B. Maybe Damon could takes some balls over there too.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
1/22/2011 3:37:28 PM #

My computer works again. I'll annoy everyone to the best of my ability.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/22/2011 3:49:13 PM #

it felt like something was missing.

Amy
Amy
1/22/2011 6:35:05 PM #

Argh. Someone else come take care of all the sick children. Whaddaya mean, it's my job? Where's the paycheck? Don't say "hugs & kisses"--that's b.s.! I want some freakin' sleep and a day without snot.

/end rant

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/22/2011 7:13:15 PM #

Holy Hell! You need a break. We just got rid of our recent bout with snot.

rpa
rpa
1/22/2011 11:15:37 PM #

This cold that's been going around (it seems everywhere... maybe because of me, but everywhere I have been the last month people have been sick) is particularly nasty and long-lived.  I got sick two weeks ago and I just now feel like I am finally over it.

rpa
rpa
1/22/2011 11:16:58 PM #

Incidentally, through observation on the one side and personal experience on the other, I have determined there are two ways to make sure you will catch pretty much anything that is going around

1) spend time around kids
2) spend time on airplanes

Amy
Amy
1/22/2011 11:38:56 PM #

I'm doomed, by that math. Three kids and a husband who's on about 4 flights a week. It's been a particularly sick winter so far and I'm, um, sick of it. In the past two weeks or so, I've had one with mysteriously enlarged internal organs, one with influenza and all three with nasty coughs/congestion and intermittent fevers. Motherhood is not for the weak.

DocProc
DocProc
1/23/2011 9:07:23 AM #

No fun!  Sorry to hear this, Amy.  Hope it all clears soon.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/23/2011 10:34:26 AM #

enlarged internal organs?

Amy
Amy
1/23/2011 12:33:14 PM #

I know, right? Probably mono, but not from the virus that normally causes mono.

Amy
Amy
1/23/2011 12:33:24 PM #

Because we can't ever be normal.

Amy
Amy
1/23/2011 12:34:07 PM #

Thanks, Doc.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
1/23/2011 11:02:33 AM #

Hang with 'em Amy. I've been through one that dealt with the whole mono/strep/kidney mess. She's doing fine in college. Her liver may be at risk, but her kidneys are as lovely as kidney's can be.

Amy
Amy
1/23/2011 12:33:40 PM #

That's good to hear!!

Mary
Mary
1/23/2011 11:01:21 AM #

Check out this   --www.redreporter.com/.../my-dinner-date-with-joey-votto

BubbaFan went to the BBWA award banquet last night and shot a ton of Joey Votto (in a tux) pictures.  That's one good looking dude (I'd say he cleans up well, but he usually looks pretty good in anything)

Mary
Mary
1/23/2011 11:03:59 AM #

I liked this comment from Votto's speach:

“I’d especially like to thank [writer] Joe Strauss from St. Louis, who didn’t vote for me,” Votto quipped. “Guess who he voted for? As if Albert [Pujols] didn’t have enough MVP Awards already.”

Amy
Amy
1/23/2011 12:35:28 PM #

NICE. That Canadian sense of humor....

rpa
rpa
1/23/2011 11:34:49 AM #

So... I turn on the radio this AM and Ken Broo is talking about the Reds signing Vladimir Guerrero to a one year deal to play left field and how much it would help the lineup.

Heh.

I think the price would be right and I think he could hit well enough to be a huge boost.  He's also one of my favorite players ever, so there's that.  Unfortunately, the Reds don't need a DH.

I'm convinced that Guerrero is actually 38 or 39 and his knees are actually about 50.  Watching him play outfield on anything approaching a regular basis would be incredibly painful.  Some AL team is going to get a bargain DH, though.  I'm convinced he's still got another .300/.350/.500 season in that bat.  He's been pretty durable in that role.

rpa
rpa
1/23/2011 11:35:45 AM #

I know we all got sick of HOF stuff.. but is Vlad a first-ballot HOFer?  I say yes.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
1/23/2011 12:23:26 PM #

Yes first ballot HOF. No Reds outfield !He wishes his knees were 50. Give me three more months and I'll be able to run better than him. You talk about the mobility of a WW1 tank. I love the guy. One of the greatest all around players in the last 30 years ,in his prime, but I do not ever want to see him play the outfield again. I would love to see him hit  one of his cricket shots after the pitch bounces,in person, though.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/23/2011 1:12:05 PM #

Absolutely on the HOF, and if he ended up in a Reds uniform, I may pee a little from the excitement. He can't be worse than Gomes in the field, and he's a heck of a lot better at the plate.

Soccerdad13
Soccerdad13
1/23/2011 12:24:58 PM #

You think 50 is old or something.You better watch it young fella or you'll have a scrap on your hands.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/23/2011 2:12:19 PM #

So Carson Palmer is demanding a trade. I no longer have any feelings towards the Bengals. I am so incredibly pizzed.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/23/2011 2:58:35 PM #

Can you blame him? He's got more money than he can spent in three lifetimes; the Bengals' organization has shown no ability to put together a competent football team for more than a half season at a time.

It can't hurt to ask.

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/23/2011 3:14:05 PM #

I'm going back and forth on being pizzed at him.

On the one hand, I have a general policy of losing all respect immediately for guys who negotiate through the media/demand trades through the media.

On the other hand, he's been a Bengal for 7 years.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/23/2011 5:00:10 PM #

When I was younger, I thought all these guys should just be happy with being pro athletes and should never make these types of demands. But at this point, I get it - if you're miserable, money/fame/whatever won't make you happy. A guy like Carson wants to win, and he has a small window to make the most of his career. I just don't blame him; I'd probably do the same thing.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/23/2011 6:04:50 PM #

This has to be a reaction to the management doing nothing with the offensive coaching staff.

rpa
rpa
1/23/2011 7:30:32 PM #

The City of Cincinnati has demanded a trade.  They want to trade the Bengals and the stadium deficit to another city for a couple of tons of road salt.  So far, no takers.

timmytwoshoezzz
timmytwoshoezzz
1/23/2011 9:00:26 PM #

With the crappy weather across the country this winter, rock salt has turned out to be extremely valuable.  

Can't blame Carson either.  Bringing Bratkowski back tells you all you need to know about how dedicated Mike Brown, Marvin Lewis, and company are to winning.  I'll never spend a dime on that team until they get a GM and make major FO changes  

Amy
Amy
1/23/2011 4:29:15 PM #

For anyone who's interested, BP is now on Twitter, @DatDudeBP

Grizzlyfox
Grizzlyfox
1/23/2011 4:31:55 PM #

DatDudeBP Brandon Phillips
@
@sbielefeld_8 Just ball out and they will find you trust me, I know! Scouts was scared to come to my school especially when it got dark! Lol

btalbert29
btalbert29
1/24/2011 4:11:04 PM #

My 2 Cents for Monday:

    Vlad Guerrero, Let's get it done.  The guy may be bad in the field but no worse than Gomes.  He has a cannon arm and we'd see both corner outfielders picking guys off on the bases left and right.  Not to mention his bat his better than Gomes.  I'd venture to say the run differential would be greater with Vlad than it is Gomes.  They won't sign him though so it's all just offseason filler talk.

    Let Carson go.  The guy, for a couple of years, was mentioned with the likes of Manning and Brady.  He may be the most talented player the Bengals have seen at QB and they have mostly squandered the talent.  Sure he had an unfortunate injury that was just dumb luck, but subsequent injuries are mostly a result of the team not investing in talent on the line to help him out.  Yes, he's had some rough games the last 2 seasons as well, but again, he is dealing with undisciplined players that drop balls and run incorrect routes.  Put him in a different situation and we see what kind of talent he really is.  I sense the 49ers in his future or possibly the Vikings.  I wish him well and lets see what he can do the next couple few seasons playing for a franchise that is not dysfunctional.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/24/2011 5:19:28 PM #

Vlad is an AL player. I'm intrigued by the conversation but it's fantasy at best.

Unfortunately Brown is a stubborn A-hole and he may just force Palmer out of the game. We'll see how that plays out if this gets as much media attention as I think it could. Player lockout could drag this out though.

btalbert29
btalbert29
1/24/2011 5:31:50 PM #

I don't put any validity in a rumor that may bring Vlad here, but I'd be all for it.  In fact, I told a friend of mine about 2 months ago they should offer him a contract just to see what he would do.

The problem with Palmer, and Brown seems to stupid to realize this, is a disgruntled player is worthless.  I believe most of this season Palmer played pissed off because of the lack of discipline and organization the team had.  You could see in his face he just didn't care.  To a point that's on him, but I blame that organization as a whole. I hung out at a bar that was frequented by a former Bengal.  He said Willie Anderson called him after he went to Baltimore and said man we should've left Cincinnati a long time ago, they treat me like a king up here.  The Bengals don't just screw over their fans, they equally as harsh on their players.

If I ever have the urge to watch a football game, it's much more fun and worth the money to just get tickets to a game in Columbus and go watch the Buckeyes.  The tailgating is better and the product on the field is worth the money.  If I have the urge to see an NFL game, I'd prefer to drive to Indy and give my hard earned cash to an organization that gets it.  I also believe their tickets are cheaper than the Bengals.

btalbert29
btalbert29
1/24/2011 5:35:48 PM #

One more bit of Bengal bashing then I'm done.  For a team that was handed a 1/2 billion dollar stadium that continues to embarrass this city, you would think they may give a little back, however you never hear about the Bengals organization being active in the community.  The Reds PR and marketing folks are very good at getting info out about the Reds Community fund, and other work the good guys are doing.  The Bengals you hear nothing.  You do get the Marvin Lewis foundation and things that individuals are doing, but never hear about the organization as a whole doing anything to help the community it has robbed.  I could be wrong, and certainly hope I am, but feel like this is probably an accurate belief.

Champ Summers
Champ Summers
1/24/2011 5:21:17 PM #

Fay just did what we were discussing for new starter material. I hate when He does something first.

AshlandATeam
AshlandATeam
1/24/2011 6:01:21 PM #

Hey guys - the new thread is up. Head over there and give us your grades for the Reds offseason!

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